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Does freedom of religion mean anything? How can the courts allow them to show prejudice against a certain group of people? Anyone who would oppose the mosque should have their religious freedoms stripped from them.

//Amanda
8 August 2011 at 10:38 am

DISCLAIMER: (next 7 verses) i’m a weak reader and so as i’ve begun reading the koran 7 verses at a time, it hepls me to cut and paste them after i’ve read them because i then re-read them on this post. they may have absolutely nothing to do with this article. i welcome any input as to historical context or to whom some of the pronouns are refering.
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/koran/browse.html

[2.258] Have you not considered him (Namrud) who disputed with Ibrahim about his Lord, because Allah had given him the kingdom? When Ibrahim said: My Lord is He who gives life and causes to die, he said: I give life and cause death. Ibrahim said: So surely Allah causes the sun to rise from the east, then make it rise from the west; thus he who disbelieved was confounded; and Allah does not guide aright the unjust people.
[2.259] Or the like of him (Uzair) who passed by a town, and it had fallen down upon its roofs; he said: When will Allah give it life after its death? So Allah caused him to die for a hundred years, then raised him to life. He said: How long have you tarried? He said: I have tarried a day, or a part of a day. Said He: Nay! you have tarried a hundred years; then look at your food and drink– years have not passed over it; and look at your ass; and that We may make you a sign to men, and look at the bones, how We set them together, then clothed them with flesh; so when it became clear to him, he said: I know that Allah has power over all things.
[2.260] And when Ibrahim said: My Lord! show me how Thou givest life to the dead, He said: What! and do you not believe? He said: Yes, but that my heart may be at ease. He said: Then take four of the birds, then train them to follow you, then place on every mountain a part of them, then call them, they will come to you flying; and know that Allah is Mighty, Wise.
[2.261] The parable of those who spend their property in the way of Allah is as the parable of a grain growing seven ears (with) a hundred grains in every ear; and Allah multiplies for whom He pleases; and Allah is Ample-giving, Knowing
[2.262] (As for) those who spend their property in the way.of Allah, then do not follow up what they have spent with reproach or injury, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve.
[2.263] Kind speech and forgiveness is better than charity followed by injury; and Allah is Self-sufficient, Forbearing.
[2.264] O you who believe! do not make your charity worthless by reproach and injury, like him who spends his property to be seen of men and does not believe in Allah and the last day; so his parable is as the parable of a smooth rock with earth upon it, then a heavy rain falls upon it, so it leaves it bare; they shall not be able to gain anything of what they have earned; and Allah does not guide the unbelieving people.

//mike
8 August 2011 at 10:38 am

amanda,

“How can the courts allow them to show prejudice against a certain group of people?” that’s what freedom of speech is.

as for “Anyone who would oppose the mosque should have their religious freedoms stripped from them.” so would you say that anyone who opposes a wal-mart being built should have their shopping right revoked? the are looking for a re-zone. that means as thezoning laws stand right now they don’t have a right to build the mosque on that location, not that they can’t build it, in an area zoned for such a use.

//mike
8 August 2011 at 10:59 am

Amanda,

First Amendment of the US Constitution reads

“Congress shall make on law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peacefully to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

__________________________________________________________

The Mosques protesters are exercising their first amendment rights to free speech, to peacefully assemble and to petition the Government involving zoning changes for the Mosque. The protestors have first amendment rights just as Muslims do.

//Hera
8 August 2011 at 11:57 am

The law was already there before they planned on building the Mosque. So the first amendment does not apply. They have the right to petition the zoning board to change there zoning laws. The same as the people have the right to oppose them changing the law. Fortunately, this is the way it works in this country. I believe there is more to the story. It seems they have enough property to build a mosque, and will have enough parking. So it would be great to hear why the zoning has refused twice to allow a change.
At least they can petition for a change, what is the excuse in Saudi Arabia to build a church. You are fortunate to live in this country.

//JAW
8 August 2011 at 12:29 pm

jaw,

i agree “It seems they have enough property to build a mosque, and will have enough parking.” i google earthed the intersection (U.S. Highway 29 and Hood Road), and there is plenty of land. it looks like there is one cookie cutter development in the area but it is pretty much undeveloped. there is a four lane divided highway right there so i don’t see how traffic pattern concerns are an issue.

that’s one of the problems with these articles, they lack detail. also they maybe technicaly be right to call it metro atlanta, but it looks like the countryside compared to atlanta proper.

hopefully we never lower ourself to the level of the saudis.

but one of the problems with democracy (majority rule) is the tryanny of the majority over the minority, especially on the local level. (the constitution is supposed to protect us on a federal level) i myself have been arrested for a municipal code violation. spent 30 hours in jail for peeling paint on one of my properties. oh well, you know what the say, you can’t fight city hall.

//mike
8 August 2011 at 6:16 pm

Mike,

This may be a rather lengthy post, but I wanted to take a moment to (God-willing) help bring the above verses into understanding. Using the commentary of Maulana Muhammed Ali in quataions as well as information from the knowledge that God has bestowed upon me.

“[2.258] Have you not considered him (Namrud) who disputed with Ibrahim about his Lord, because Allah had given him the kingdom? When Ibrahim said: My Lord is He who gives life and causes to die, he said: I give life and cause death. Ibrahim said: So surely Allah causes the sun to rise from the east, then make it rise from the west; thus he who disbelieved was confounded; and Allah does not guide aright the unjust people.”

“The words “because Allah had given him kingdom” are taken by the majority of commentators to refer to Abraham’s opponent whose name is given as Nimrod (Genesis 10:8,9), but the view of the minority that the personal pronoun ‘him’ in the above quotation refers to Abraham is preferable. It is corroborated by 4:54 “We have given to Abraham’s children the Book and the Wisdom and We have given them a grand kingdom”. Even in Genesis the promised land is spoken of as being given to Abraham: “I am the Lord that brought thee out of Ur of the Chaldees, to give thee this land to inherit it” (Gen. 15:7). The words ata-hu-llahu would in this case mean Allah (God) had promised to give him.”

As far as the statement of Nimrod “I give life and cause death”, according to muslim and christian belief, when Abraham said My Lord gives life and death Nimrod had two slaves brought forth and then killed one, setting the other free before responding with the aforementioned.

“The disputant [Nimrod] belonged to a race of sun-worshippers, and therefore when he [Nimrod] claimed that he could give life and death, Abraham advanced the argument which quite confounded his adversary. If he [Nimrod] could give life and death he could control even his deity, the sun, for to give life and cause death were the work of the deity and not of the devotee, and hence he could make it rise from the opposite direction. The adversary was confounded, because he saw that he had made an assertion which was opposed to his own avowed belief.”

Another view on this is that Nimrod claimed himself to be the Lord Most High creator of all that exists, so if he (Nimrod) claimed to have himself created all things and then could not cause the sun to change direction, this would disprove his claim of divinity. And of course God knows best.

I hope this helps lead to some understanding, I will try to continue with the next verses soon God-Willing

Peace.

//Daniel
9 August 2011 at 12:07 pm

@Daniel Why are you bothering, I’ve already explained, he’s a bigot/hater, he keeps doing the same thing, regardless of the facts being presented towards him.

@Mike “as for “Anyone who would oppose the mosque should have their religious freedoms stripped from them.” so would you say that anyone who opposes a wal-mart being built should have their shopping right revoked? the are looking for a re-zone.”

So your going to compare a place of worship to a shop? This is your level of thinking, your just going to lower your IQ and that box of yours will shink more and more, because your never thinking outside it.

//Perseveranze
9 August 2011 at 1:28 pm

“At least they can petition for a change, what is the excuse in Saudi Arabia to build a church.”

It’s a sacred place, I assume you realise that you couldn’t build or even enter buildings that are sacred (to other religions) or government property for that matter?

//Perseveranze
9 August 2011 at 1:30 pm

But I will agree, culturally influenced, Saudi aren’t as tolerant as they should be.

//Perseveranze
9 August 2011 at 1:32 pm

daniel,

thanks, but despite with the possibility if being called “a bigot/hater” i’ve heard of nimrod. it’s actually considered an insult to say don’t be a nimrod. but is he a grandson of noah? doesn’t abraham predate noah by a few years? do you actually believe in the tower of babel? “http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimrod

anyways, “I know that Allah has power over all things”? if so, is this drought in somalia not the result of allah’s will?

//mike
9 August 2011 at 2:50 pm

perseveranze,

“@Daniel Why are you bothering, I’ve already explained, he’s a bigot/hater, he keeps doing the same thing, regardless of the facts being presented towards him.” wow so much hatred? so what facts have been presented to me?

as for “So your going to compare a place of worship to a shop? This is your level of thinking, your just going to lower your IQ and that box of yours will shink more and more, because your never thinking outside it.” yes, i will equate one building to another regaurdless of it desingated use. residential to commercial, multiuse to single use. zoning laws have to do with traffic flow and use of the building, i.e. no storing nuclear waste or smelting steel in a residential neighborhood. perhaps you are not an american but there have been people who have stopped wal-marts from being built by way of zoning laws, when in fact the opponents were more concerned about local general stores being put out of business by wal-marts presence. sorry for my ambiguity. as for :”It’s a sacred place, I assume you realise that you couldn’t build or even enter buildings that are sacred (to other religions) or government property for that matter?” are you talking about all of saudi arabia? if so 22 million square miles are sacred land? isn’t that why ubl attacked us on 9/11? for our infidel boots on the sands of the holy land of saudi arabia? so when does the labeling of property of “holy land” stop?

as for thinking in or outside a box, let me ask you this, is it possible there is no god? let’s see how big your box is? i’ll certainly say it is possible there is a god, but it’s just as likely that there isn’t. you called me closed minded earlier, what did jesus, a prophet to you say, one should worry about the log in their own eye before worriing about the spec in their brother’s eye.

i guess i’ve been made to look silly again, oh well.

//mike
9 August 2011 at 4:58 pm

I love reading these replys. I think it would be best to hear the objections to the building. If they simply focus on the fact its a Mosque and thus should not be built then that is a shamefull thing. I believe, regardless of what others here think, that most people are tolerent and try to be fair in their decision making. This may or may not be the case here but it would be good to hear what they have to say before commenting much.

//criley401
9 August 2011 at 7:58 pm

Mike, you took my thunder on the zoning. I’m not the brightest bulb in the pack, but we see what happens on Aug 16th when they have there council meeting. From what I read about this, there is already a Mosque in the area, but it is too small, and there is a population to support a new building. Beside, the mayor owns 4 acres that the builders need to complete the project. and she wants to sell.
My big question concerns the agruement that no churches are allowed in Saudi Arbia, because its a “sacred Place”. If this is correct, would then the Jews have the right to bulldoze the Temple Mount”?
Just saying

//JAW
9 August 2011 at 8:38 pm

danial,

do you beleive that god made Uzair sleep for one hundred years?

//mike
10 August 2011 at 3:26 pm

Mike do u beleive that u created from ‘sperm’ and ‘egg’ of ur father and mother? There is no word ‘impossible’ to Allah like as.”kun fayakun” when he decrees amatter to be only says to it “be,and it is” and u know that Allah has power over all things..peace

//Abd
11 August 2011 at 5:21 am

abd,

do i believe that i’m created from sperm of my father and egg of my mother? of course, that is scientific fact? i think. i’m going with that the spem and egg met without god’s intevention. although my mom is a devote catholic and therefore against birth control so maybe in a way god had a role in my conception. so nothing is “impossible” for allah. so why not eliminate slavery? so is allah responsible for this somali drought? can’t he just make it rain?

anyways interesting concept. ”kun fayakun” …do you agree with the concept of Occasionalism?

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?34171-Kun-Fayakun

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kun_(Islamic_term)

prost

//mike
11 August 2011 at 4:25 pm

mike, ALLAH says “Be sure we shall test you with something of Fear,HUNGER,LOSS OF WEALTH,LIVES AND FRUITS,BUT give glad tidings to those who PATIENTLY preserve”(2:155) so we belive thise dunia as a test,just like an exam hard and difficult but that does not mean the examiner unkind. for the slavery simply http://www.goo…..u know that ……u get many answers..and rember the creater
of that s&e,see the sky,the sun,billon of animals,air ….or ur little finger print,… how and why? peace

//Abd
12 August 2011 at 11:24 am

abd,

yeah i’ve read that. and the verse before and after, which i think, perhaps is often quoted by those who mean to rally support in their quest for terror.

2:154

ولا تقولوا لمن يقتل في سبيل الله أموات بل أحياء ولكن لا تشعرون

And do not say about those who are killed in the way of Allah , “They are dead.” Rather, they are alive, but you perceive [it] not.

2:155

ولنبلونكم بشيء من الخوف والجوع ونقص من الأموال والأنفس والثمرات وبشر الصابرين

And We will surely test you with something of fear and hunger and a loss of wealth and lives and fruits, but give good tidings to the patient,

2:156

الذين إذا أصابتهم مصيبة قالوا إنا لله وإنا إليه راجعون

Who, when disaster strikes them, say, “Indeed we belong to Allah , and indeed to Him we will return.”

i’m also familiar with the story of hagar, and the well of zamzam. so you don’t think this somali drought is “unkind”? the “examiner” causing small children to starve to death, is not unkind in your book?

sorry i don’t know what “dunia” means, also not sure if it’s a typo or an abbreviation, but i’m unfamiliar with “s&e”?

Nabad miyaa

//mike
12 August 2011 at 1:08 pm

Freedom of Religion! Yes! But Islam is not a religion! It is a cultural and political ideology meant for world domination for supremacy! No, NO to the Ground Zero Mosque! No, NO, NO to your evil Shariah law!

//Angel Lasuma
12 August 2011 at 10:56 pm

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