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With CIA help, NYPD built secret effort to monitor mosques, daily life of Muslim neighborhoods

CIA

CIA

With CIA help, NYPD built secret effort to monitor mosques, daily life of Muslim neighborhoods

Since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, the New York Police Department has become one of the nation’s most aggressive domestic intelligence agencies, targeting ethnic communities in ways that would run afoul of civil liberties rules if practiced by the federal government, an Associated Press investigation has found.

The operations have benefited from unprecedented help from the CIA, a partnership that has blurred the line between foreign and domestic spying.

The department has dispatched undercover officers, known as “rakers”, into minority neighborhoods as part of a human mapping program, according to officials directly involved in the program. They’ve monitored daily life in bookstores, bars, cafes and nightclubs. Police have also used informants, known as “mosque crawlers”, to monitor sermons, even when there’s no evidence of wrongdoing.

Neither the city council, which finances the department, nor the federal government, which has given NYPD more than $1.6 billion since 9/11, is told exactly what’s going on.

Many of these operations were built with help from the CIA, which is prohibited from spying on Americans but was instrumental in transforming the NYPD’s intelligence unit.

A veteran CIA officer, while still on the agency’s payroll, was the architect of the NYPD’s intelligence programs. The CIA trained a police detective at the Farm, the agency’s spy school in Virginia, then returned him to New York, where he put his new espionage skills to work inside the United States.

And just last month, the CIA sent a senior officer to work as a clandestine operative inside police headquarters.

The NYPD denied that it trolls ethnic neighborhoods and said it only follows leads.

Washington Post, 24 August 2011

See also “CAIR to call for probe of secret NYPD-CIA program”,CAIR press release, 24 August 2011

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38 Comments »

  1. Oh, or course. This is what is going on in Europe, the UK, but especially the Netherlands.

    You will also find that “radicalization” is defined by such things as level of piety, involvement in community activities, and political groups. Also, political opinions and viewpoints are “indicators of radicalization.”

    Such “indicators” would never be tolerated if regarding American conservatives and right wing! Conservatives would be screaming their free speech and constitutional rights!

  2. Mosques are also monitored in Turkey and France to name just two examples. The reason Mosques are monitored and not Buddhist temples is because Mosques are where the terrorists are.If Muslims are upset about the monitoring they should blame Islamic terrorists who plant bombs in public places rather then the law enforcement officials who are determined to stop them. I’m happy that law enforcement is doing WHATEVER is necessary to stop another atrocity like 9/11 from occurring.

  3. did people already forget about the norway shooter or jared lougnner you know the guy who went on a shooting spree that got a little girl killed, or maybe they don’t know there history on a guy named charles whitman but hey I forgot that’s it’s effective to look at terrorism as simply something exclusive to muslims instead of something that comes in different forms such as the above such as the ones I just mentioned. but hera would you still be saying that if another timothy mcviegh happens “yes we are sorry of this act of brutality that left many dead that law enforcement could’ve prevented but you see we we were targeting muslims as the only source of terrorism who knew anybody from all walks of life are capable of terrorism.”

  4. Corey,

    The reality is that where there is religious violence you will almost always find Muslims on one or both sides. Muslims killing Christians, Muslims killing Hindus, Muslims killing Jews, Muslims killing Muslims.Yes Tim McVeigh blew up a federal building back in the 1990s, he was brought to justice and executed, we are talking about today. When Muslims plant car bombs in Time Square, wear panty bombs on planes or conspire to blow up Christians at Christmas tree ceremonies it tends to draw attention to them.Mosques are monitored in the US, Turkey and France because Mosques are where the terrorists are.There is no need to waste time and resources on monitoring The Amish or Buddhists as they are known as peaceful and non-violent.If Muslims are upset they should blame Islamic terrorists not the law enforcement officials who are determined to stop them.

  5. http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/claim_that_all_terrorists_are_muslims_ignores_history/ here is a list of non muslim terrorist incidents, so as I have said terrorism isn’t exclusive to muslims and as for religious violence or incidents well gee there was that thing with jim jones who led one of the worst mass suicides in history and considered himself a christian as well as his group, and well my memory is a bit hazy but there was a hindu guy that tried to gas a subway station in japan I think, and christians actually face persecution in places were fanatical adherents to buddhism and hinduism are, so yeah targeting exclusively muslims for terrorism is ineffectivebecause terrorism comes from all walks of life even you have to admit that’s case when looking at that list in the link. in fact if you remember how hitler was able to get the germans to hate jews well he used the shooting done by a jewish teen who killed a nazi officer and used that as ammo for well you know what came next.

  6. corey

    Amen.

  7. Jim Jones and his followers died in 1978, Tim McVeigh bombed a federal building in 1995, the sarin gas attacks by religious fanatics in Japan were in 1995. The people committing terrorist atrocities since the year 2000 in the US, UK, China, Russia, India, Israel, Iraq, Pakistan, Bali, Spain and Nigeria are not The Amish they are Muslim.

    Naser Abdo was arrested in July 2011 for conspiring to murder soldiers at Fort Hood. He wanted to kill to honor Muslim mass murdered and Fort Hood shooter Nidal Hassen.Faisal Shahzad, Muhammad Hussain,Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab all were arrested within the last few years.It would be a waste of time and resources to investigate whoever is left from the Peoples Temple since they haven’t killed anyone since 1978.In contrast Muslims have rioted over cartoons or wet korans or blown up innocents for not being Muslim or not being Muslim enough in Europe, Asia,Middle East and North America all within the last few years.Law enforcement needs to go where the terrorists are which is why they are not wasting time watching The Amish.

  8. did you not look at the link posted at all, and so as the government wastes there resources targeting just terrorist among muslim groups and something like the norway massacre happens in america by a non muslim mayby something in the similar vain of what colin ferguson did http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Ferguson_(mass_murderer)

  9. sorry meant to finish with would you still support this.

  10. I didn’t bother with the link for the same reason that the CIA and NYPD are concentrating on Muslim terrorists. Its Muslims who slaughtered 3000 innocent Americans on 9/11 that’s what’s important.

  11. NYPD responds to the AP report. As I pointed out its about stopping terrorists from killing people.

    ________________________________________________

    The NYPD blasted the report on Wednesday as “fictional.”

    “Even for a piece driven by anonymous NYPD critics, it shows that we’re doing all we reasonably can to can to stop terrorists from killing more New Yorkers,” wrote NYPD spokesman Paul Browne in an e-mail reply sent to the media.

    “We’re going to do all we reasonably can to keep New York safe,” wrote Browne. “We do so in partnership with the FBI and other Federal agencies, and we uphold the Constitution in doing so.”

  12. I don’t remember exclusively monitoring mosques for terrorists as constitutionally sound but seeing as how you don’t seem to trust anything with the word “muslim” here is something with the letters “f.b.i” http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/terrorism-2002-2005/terror02_05#terror_0205 enjoy.

  13. corey,

    really? you don’t think the cia and nypd are doing more than one thing?

    “something exclusive to muslims”

    “terrorism isn’t exclusive to muslims”

    of couse terrorism isn’t “exclusive” to muslims we have all heard of the ira, eta, farc, the shining path, the weather underground, november 17th etc…..etc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_designated_terrorist_organizations

    “I don’t remember exclusively monitoring mosques for terrorists as constitutionally sound” again where do you come up with “exclusively”? i hope our intellegence community can walk and chew gum at the same time. but maybe not? colin ferguson? a crazy guy on a train, really?? how about columbine? or all the other school shootings that happened then? how about the guy in the tower at UT? i think you are missing the point between crazy and ideology? although sometimes they converge, as in crazy ideology.

    did you read the Associated Press investigation? it all seemed reasonable to me, and i dislike the government. but using words like “secrect” and “agressive” doesn’t… well let me quote “aggressive domestic intelligence agencies” “unprecedented help from the CIA” “clandestine” all maybe so. but 9/11 was “unprecedented” by anyone’s definition, don’t you think?

    but i love your 3 year snap shot of an fbi report. perhaps you didn’t crunch the numbers for the fbi 1980 – 2005 report.

    non-islamic terrorist deaths 194, injuries 900

    islamic terrorist deaths 2,981 injuries 13,000est hard to be percise on 9/11 that 6% of terrorism accounts for 93.8% of all deaths and 93.5% of injuries.

  14. @mike
    okay I will admit “exclusive” was a poor choice of words (and I did mention charles whitmen) but according this study http://sanford.duke.edu/centers/tcths/about/documents/Kurzman_Muslim-American_Terrorism_Since_911_An_Accounting.pdf (hopefully this wont be seen as spam) tips from the american muslim community has been on of the “largest single source of initial information” when stopping terrorism in fact two of those turned over to the authorities turned out to be informants.

  15. corey,

    “tips from the american muslim community has been on of the “largest single source of initial information” when stopping terrorism in fact two of those turned over to the authorities turned out to be informants.”

    where else would they come from?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14677957

  16. interesting study. “still, with Muslims comprising about 1 percent of the American population, it is clear that Muslims are engaging in terrorism at a greater rate than non-Muslims — though at a low level compared with overall violence in the United States.” that’s what i say all the time.

    don’t care much for figures 1 & 2. they present post 9/11 2001 as an entire year. seems a bit misleading. but i thought this website has had several artilces saying that there have been no “civilian” deaths since 9/11. this study contradicts that. didn’t know the kid who flew the plane into the building in downtown tampa was considered a muslim terrorist? thought it was a suicide? if i recall correctly his mom blamed his acne medicine for making him depressed, plus i think it was on the weekend. i’ll have to google him.

  17. “The second largest source of initial information about terrorism suspects (43 individuals) is ongoing government investigations.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Tampa_plane_crash

  18. yo Hera, guess what? Part of those 3000 were Muslims, who went to WORK that day. believ me missy, if the muslims were really behind this, no way in hell would thay have put themselves through that.
    By the way, you kknow iin the same 30 seconds it took to report 9/11 to the public, it took 5 seconds to state that Muslims did it, barely any investigation had to be done. Bush was’t nearly surprised to fnd out.

    Oh and I’m a Muslim, better sleep wth one eye open. NOT. Do you not see how ridiculous you are?

  19. And does it look like IM conspiring to kill anyone? I was 7 when 9/11, and as soon as it did, the teacher said “Elle’s people did this” and suddenly thw whole class wouldn’t talk to me. Ya think the Muslims even have a strong governemnt back in the middle East? The place is run by raving lunatics who kill “in the name of God”. Fuck that. God forbade killing, slaughtering, all that bullshit you keep saying we all did. I hate Bin Laden, I rejoiced when he died, the Mosque i go to announced it and there was an excited chatter, I heard someone say “Alhamdulilah he’s gone” Maybe we shouldn’t rejoice in the death of people, but Bin Laden’s death was like being freed from chains of terror. You should do real research instead of cornering the Muslims for what the CIA trained Bin Laden to do. That doesan’t make him innocent, btw. Just telling you the harsh truth.

  20. elle,

    “CIA trained Bin Laden to do”, where do you get that from? the cia certainly funneled money and weapons to the mujahideen in afghanistan. and bin laden fought with them. but how did they train him to hijack a civilian plane? muslims have been hijacking planes since the 70s. of course the standard mo was to reroute them and hold everyone hostage and demand some people get released from jails, usually isreali jails. although a german mob outscourced some palestinians once to try and gain the release of the mob bosses.

    “God forbade killing, slaughtering, all that bullshit”. some keep finding loopholes to that. perhaps bin laden felt that americans are the modern day equivalent to the pagan quraysh? that our support for israel is leading to the persecution of the palestinians. therefore he thought he should follow the example of the koran?
    [2.190] And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits.
    [2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

  21. seems to be no shortage of those who will exceed the limits??????

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-14706513

  22. Oh mike, of course even I was surprsied when i saw that ayah, but how about you ask some one, about it, God isn’t gonna say “Just kill them all” there’s always a reason for it.

    I think (and I’m saying so because I’m no sheikh) this is about when we near the Day of Judgement, all the major abrahamic religions will have clashed, and the false Messiah will come down and round up those who worship and follow him (i.e. so if your not a true Jew, Christian or Muslim and you don’t follow your religion accordingly, you will follow him) and he will lead war after war against those who don’t follow his false words. Then God will send down Jesus Christ, because we believe that he didn’t die, but went up to Heaven to await his return, and all the true believers will follow Jesus and there will be a HUGE battle, and many will die, but God tells us t fight and kill those followers of the Messiah because they will be in Hell and their death is their final recompense…. until the Messiah is killed by Jesus and then all will be peaceful until the last signs of the Day which then we will all be resurrected and judged by God.
    Did you see the Ayahs afterwards Mike or did you just type in “kill” next to the word “Islam” and post what you found?

    “And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers. ” (2:193)

    Come on now, at least look for an explaination, or study Islamic History and Religion at my school lol, you learn so much about Islam, Christianity and Judaism you’ll come out with a headache from all the things you soak up in there. no really, please look at the explainations next time, really, I thought you were trying to figure out the truth not post things up and make us ACTUALLy look bad.

    Also, Allah is just the Arabic word for God. he’s not a seperate Pagan Moon God or something. Just god. And The Bible says Jesus called God “Abba” which in either Aramaic or Hebrew will come out as Alla.

    It’s strange how languages can actually be so similar. Take hallelujah. (First of all, Hallel in Arabic means to Praise God verbally) Take out the H and put it behind the e, and change the j to an L, you have alleh, and lulah (lillah means ‘for or to God) change e to a you have allah. Did not one ever notice that? Look at Farsi, Aramaic, Hebrew and Arabic translations. MY GOD it’s very enlightening. Anyway, I know it has nothing to do with the Asrticle, it’s just something I should share. And eve… we call her hawa and the derivation of the name from Hawa is really something interesting but I won’t talk about it. My comment got too long anyway.

  23. And Mike, there are many many Christians in Palestine, you think he coul be one> I;m not pinning this on Christianity God no, but there is always that possibilty.

    And like I’ve been telling you for the millionth time, some Muslims go a little nuts and you know what the guy was seriously not right in the head for what he did, but exactly why are you shoving this in my face? Your bringing a political and non religious story into it. Look, I know what the Israeli government did to my family and to other Palestinian families and when people tell me to go back to my own country I tell them I can’t cause the Israelis live there now, I can’t go back cause they won’t let me. And you know 700,000 Palestinians were exiled in ’48 and their villages (500) were destroyed, wiping out the history and existence of the Palestinains as if they just vanished. And I have my own stories of the way Israeli soldiers treated me but this isn’t a thread where everyone should be crying so I’ll leave that out.

    I don’t like that some Palestinians go off and fight like they do, but this is their freedom fight, its between them and God, and I’m not leaving out the Israelis. They think we’re all the same, and some Palestinains think Israelis are all the same. I don’t, but after the torture my uncles father and grandfather went through in Israeli Prisons for advocating for Palestine’s freedom, I’m not surprised that they are bitter. Go do research on the war, REAL research. I’ll give you a hint, it all started with Napolean’s fight with the ottomans. Go look it up.

  24. elle,

    muhammad asad footnotes 2:190 as: This and the following verses lay down unequivocally that only self-defence (in the widest sense of the word) makes war permissible for Muslims. Most of the commentators agree in that the expression la ta tadu signifies, in this context, “do not commit aggression”; while by al-mu tadin “those who commit aggression” are meant. The deffensive character of a fight “in God’s cause” – that is, in the cause of the ethical principles ordained by God – is, moreover, self-evident in the reference to “those who wage war against you”‘ and has been still further clarified in 22:39 – “permission [to fight] is given to those against whom war is being wrongfully waged” – which, according to all available Traditions, constitutes the earliest (and therefore fundamental) Qur anic reference to the question of jihad, or holy war (see Tabari and Ibn Kathir in their commentaries on 22:39). that this early, fundemental princple of self-defence as the only possible justification of war has been maintained throughout the Qur an is evident from 60:8 as well as from the concluding sentence of 4:91, both of which belong to a later period than the above verse.

    2:191 has two footnotes (first): In view of the preceding ordinance, the injunction “slay them wherever you may come upon them” is valid only within the context of hostilities already in progress (Razi), on the understanding that “those who wage war against you” are the aggressors or oppressors (a war of liberation being a war “in God’s cause). The translation, in this context, of fitnah as “oppression” is justified by the application of this term to any affliction which may cause man to go astray and to lose his faith in spiritual values (cf. Lisan al-Arab)

    second footnote: This reference to warfare in the vicinity of Mecca is due to the fact that at the time of the revelation of this verse the Holy City was still in the possession of the pagan Quraysh, who were hostile to the Muslims. However – as is always the case with historical references in the Qur an – the above injunction has a general import, and is valid for all times and circumstances.

  25. elle,

    “Did you see the Ayahs afterwards Mike or did you just type in “kill” next to the word “Islam” and post what you found?” no i didn’t just type kill, i’ve read the entire book. in fact i’ve read the first four books, sorry surahs, and the 24th. i opened it up one night right on the begining of the 24th, so i read it. for some reason they did’t put it chronological order anyways? i can cherry pick out of those 5 pretty good from memory.

    my point was that many muslim interpret the koran quite differently then you obviously. semms odd for god to have made his revelations so open to so many interpretation? did you see the pakistanis blew up another mosques the other day. i just don’t get how that happens with suc regularity in the muslin world? yes there are nuts in all demographics, but islam seems to have more than it’s share.

    don’t know if i can do any REAL research but i used to read a little about palestine/israel. i had a website in my favorites but i guess that was several computers ago. they had an israeli and palesitnian flag on it. they claimed they were promoting cooperation but it still seemed a little israeli leaning, how about this one? http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/maps.html

    check you later, got to go eat the spanish mackerel i caught today, best day of.

  26. Mike

    Jihad means struggle. The way I struggle through a (example) divorce maybe because my husband isn’t letting me wear hijab or do anything Islamic is like a Jihad. For others, fighting in a war without INTENTIONALLy thinking “oh I’m going to go die for Gid right now, bring on the bombs I’m commtiing suicide” (btw if your thinking that you won’t even SEE Heaven on your way down to HELL.) And yor right, people interpret the Quran differently, which I guess is why things are the way they are. SIGH. If God could just send down Jesus and Mohammad back….

    And oh yeah, I guess you aren’t going to do research for palestine or the history of Israel, I’ll do it for you.

    Back during the times of the Mid to Late-Ottoman Empire, Napolean wanted to get into Canaan (modern day Palestine) but the Muslim leaders had built a large wall around so he couldn’t get through. (the Ottomans may have been corrupt, but they weren’t totally stupid.) So Napolean went lookign for a way to infiltrate so he could conquer Canaan at last. He found out about some jewish settlements in that area and called for a meeting between Jewish leaders in Europe and himself. He askd them to send more people there, so it would open up, that way he could tear the ottomans down. A man named Theodore Herzl was among those men. He encouraged the movement of Jews towards that area. The Muslims didn’t really mind the the Jews, after all, they’d lived together in Andalus for countless centuries. But then in the early 1900’s the Ottomans fell and Britian took over. The jewish residents grew and to the palestinians it was a little alarming because there was increasing violence and riots between the arab, the Jews, and the British.

    Suddenly, massacres and bloody shotings became a nrom in Palestine. More Jews piled in, after all, Europe wasn’t treating them very well, and even the British were a little confused. Some Palestinians, i’m not gonna lie, were a little uncomfortable with it, like they could sense impending doom or something. which is kinda what happened, but I’ll get to that in a bit. Jewish radical groups, known now as Zionists, were fighting th e Arabs and British because Herzl had mentioned the idea of a free state. Of course, Zionists back in Europe were still speculating on where to build this ew Jewish nation. They thought of Fiji, New Zealand, but then they realized, Palestine contianed a lot more history for them. So they planned their move. Then out of nowhere, in the 40’s, Hitler decided to make life a pain in the ass and imprison Jews and other minorities, as many as he could perhaps. More and more Jews fled to Palestine, hoping to be safe from the Nazis, and after WW2 ended, the Holocast came out, and Zionists used it to get sympathy from the UN, UK and the US. (Now I agree genocide is a sick sick thing and no one should have to go through, Jews or anyone else) and after that, they revealed their plan to the world, “Since no one else wants us we shll create our own free stae, a land with no people for a people with no land” See there was a problem with this.

    There were ALREADY people there. The Palestinains. And if you think we have no history there, read the Quran, read the old testament, look through my grandfather’s journal and photos (he was born during the last years of the Ottoman empire…old huh.) Anyway, the very first people in Palestine were called te Balistiniyyun, aka the Palestinians. Maybe they weren’t Muslims but they were still the Arab and the only people thre When Moses (gonna be religios for a sec) came with his followers, they passed through Canaan where there were people indeed, but they went through the desert, where there were much less there. But I know for a fact they didn’t wander the desert for 40 years, no one survives that long in a desert, especially if they are nomads. by the time the got out, 2/3 of them were gone. And just a note: Moses said himself that the Jews were to have their own Holy Land one day? Do you know what he was talking about? HEAVEN, not a Palestine. Heaven is the holiest place you can ever imagine, and Moses said if the Jews followed his example and the Torah and believeed in the last Messenger (Mohammad) they would go to the Holy Land. But over time, Judiasm became corrupt, and when Jesus was born, it was God’s way of telling the Jews to follow the light. Some did, like Mary of course, Zakariyah and other faithful servants of God.

    OK, back to what I was saying earlier. Finally the Zionists said they needed to arrange a gov, a leader, and who did they choose? Ariel Sharon, possibly the most inhumane man I’ve ever heard of. See Jews were outraged by the Holocausts and the Nazis and thats why they followed the idea of their own state. But the Arabs didn’t know what was going on. People were getting killed, more and more land was being eaten up by Zionists, UNDER Sharon’s rule. Their houses were being torn down by rebels and other radicals. Then that fateful day arrived. The UK was scared and sick of the violence in Paletine and wanted ‘out’, so they signed the Belfour Decleration which proved that the land of Palestine was now under Zionists control. Things became even MORE violnt, and villages were being attacked, raided and torn apart by Zionists. Palestinains were so terrified and scared they locked their doors (and took their house keys WITH them, thinking they could come back when the violence dided out) and with the annoying shoving of the soldiers, they fled, hoping soon they could come back. But they were never allowd their right of return.

    Village after village was cleared out, and no matter how many people it took to slaughter, it didn’t matter to Sharon or his soldiers. Ever heard of Deir Yassin? one of the OLDEST most historical villages of Palestine was obliterated and hundreds of Arabs were killed, Muslim and Christain. (yes, there are MANY Arab christians) and whoever was lucky got pushed out quickly into a refugee camp and never had the chance to come back. The regular jewish folk were blissfully unaware of the fact that innocent people were being murdered in their name. (ALthough I’m curious as to what their reaction to Ariel Sharon’s famous saying of the Arab “The old will die and the young will forget” what did they think he was talking about, the revelation that Santa Claus wasn’t real? Sigh) and on May 15, 1948 Israel was ‘born”.

    Just the other day, I saw a newspaper that said “May 15, Jews all over the globe celebrate as Palestinains mourn the creation of Israel.” EXCUSE ME? Hello??? We are mourning the loss of OUR home, OUR land! We could care less if the jews had their own homeland, but why exactly did they need to push out so many palestinains and kill us to get it??? Honestly, people in this COUNTRY don’t even get it. Some Jewish people here dont even know what people theyre being taught to hate. Some lady a jewish woman, said “These Pakistanis need to calm down, this is our area, our land, God gave it to US.” So i sit there saying, “Pakistan is next to India. It’s in southeast Asia. Palestine is between Jordan and the dead freaking sea. You don’t even know what “God decreed to you” supposedly and yet you stand here in front of me saying to “get out” and “calm down” huh.

    I pity it. Realy, because I know the jws are mad abut the Holocaust, but we’re mad about our own Holocaust, which is still going on. 63 miserable year sin counting. So many Jews don’t even realize that Palestinians are being targeted day by day by Israeli rockets. American Jewish kids who visit Israel are told to STAY in the city they are visiting. They aren’t ALLoWED to see the outside, because if they did….haha, oh they’d have a diffrerent outlook on EVERYTHING. And don’t think that what Netanyahu said is right (you know most Israelis and Jews don’t even know who he is)that kal, every Arab perosn in Israeli has a good life. Good life my butt. If you come to an Israeli soldier and show him your American Passport he would laugh at you, cause apparently the US is Israel’s bitch.

    I go to Palestine to visit my ailing family almost every summer, and everytime its the ame thing. Israeli gaurds, man, will try to rip off my scarf and tug at my hair to see if its real. They stop us at 3 checkpoints between every city, and rummage and steal valuables from our bags and claim them “dangrous” when really its a can of olives or thyme. They push you around and ignore you, sometimes you talk to them and they listen, which shows there is some truth to it.

    I hate that Israelis took over my land, but I love that there are some Jews and Israelis who disagree with the occupation, who fight against it. So i dont hate all Jews, if you think that. i just rellly dislike zionists and killers, thats all. And don;t call me an anti-semetic, because Arabs are semites too. =P

  27. Wow, so many typos…I gotta stop using this broken keyboard.

  28. elle,

    you’re awsome. so much knowledge at 17. but i guess as a palestinian you want to know your history. i know i come across as combative sometimes. and appearently “hateful” to some. i just enjoy a good arguement from time to time. anyways. i’ve heard of the british mandate and the belfour declaration, i’ve even read a little bit about them. i read up a little bit on the napoleonic wars. he attacked pretty much everybody in europe. he went down to egypt. i think the nation of islam blames him for blowing the noses off the sphinx? didn’t see much about the turks. but i wouldn’t doubt it. as for getting jews into canaan, you may be right. that’s how you take over land. getting your people or your allies on the land. that’s how we got texas from the mexicans. that’s how the british got northern ireland, the falken islands. the chinesse are doing the same thing with tibet today. also they are moving han chinesse into the muslim/uighurs areas. it’s a classic stradegy for conquering a land. that’s why the west bank is lost to the muslims. the jews won’t stop building settlements. they are no dumbies, they are even building a wall. what i don’t get is why the palestinians didn’t accept the 47-48 un proposal for partition? why hamas fires these pointless rockets into jewish towns? they hardly ever kill anyone, and never anyone of importance. it only gives cover to the israelis to do as they want without world condemnation. haven’t they read about ghandi, martin luther king, nelson mandella?

    “OK, back to what I was saying earlier. Finally the Zionists said they needed to arrange a gov, a leader, and who did they choose? Ariel Sharon, possibly the most inhumane man I’ve ever heard of.” ariel sharron, the butcher of beruit? isn’t he still in a comma, or did he finally die? he was a general in the 1982 war with lebenon. anyways i think you missed on that one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ben-Gurion was the first israeli pm. now you got bebe in charge, he won’t give an inch. it was too bad when that jew shot the one guy, was it yitzhak rabin? was that after the olso or dayton accords? no matter now as time moves on palestine is lost. well maybe the iranians will nuke tel aviv. then it will be on like donkey kong.

    anyways, i posted that website to get your approval before i read too much. but it says that in 47? only 6% of the population was jewish. seems like napoleon wasn’t too successful?

    next time you go to palestine let me know if i can tag along. that would be interesting.

  29. Mike.

    “why hamas fires these pointless rockets into jewish towns? ”

    You mean the rockets made out of garbage? The “rockets’ that don’t injure anyone, and if they dd, it would be a minor scrath on the head. Maybe even just a bruise. And you know what, I don’t like Hamas, or Fatteh. Hamas’ jackass leader Mahmoud Abbass I think is his name, yeah he tried to give ALL of Palestine to Israel west bank and all, just so he could stay in power. The whole ordeal is better known as the Palestinain Papers. Its an outrage. Like for god’s sake, pick a freakin’ side. Your people are dying. Jesus.

    And i guess I f*cked up with names, I do know of Rabin, I think he was prm minister around the 90’s? But Sharon (yea, still in a coma) was a bloodthirsty man with no regards to human life. I say was cause if your in a coma, your probably better off dead.

    And that jerk Bebe…if I say anything, I might be banned from the internet so I’ll stick to the word ‘jerk”. And HEY, you mean the Irani GOV, the iranians are cool. The gov might nuke Tel Aviv, which means a lot of arab might die too. :/ But then again, the rest of the Arab and Muslim countries don’t really care about anyone but themselves. I’m not saying their people aren’t sympathetic and helpful but the govs themselves don’t care. They fought once in the 60’s and lost miserably. After that they never set foot in Palestine again. It’s like theyre just sleeping, like they don’t hear their christian/muslim arab brothers and sisters screaming for help. But I think you might be right. God said in the Quran, at least i think he did, “Falasteen (Palestine) will be free on Judgement day.” That’s where the olive trees wil stand up and vouch for the lost Palestinains, for the lost villages, they will protest against the Israelis and tell God everything, although he knows all. Why do you think the Israelis are cutting all the Olive trees down?It’s not part of their redecoration projects… They know.

    I know, 6%, I already knew it Mike, but the number just skyrocketed in the rest of the 40’s, as even in the 50’s people were still coming in.

    And I encourage you to go. palestine, whether or not it’s occupated, is still gorgeous in most areas. The mountains, the Dead Sea, the lush palm trees, its lovely. But go to the West bank, it’s all concrete and rubble and dirt. I guess that’s what happens when your bombed so many times. It’s like the Ghetto, a really terrible ghetto. Go to Gaza they are a lot of dead bodies probably still lying around from the 63rd anniversary of the Catastrophe . when Palestinians marched up and protested….sadly most got killed r severyl injured. Yeah. Just go, it’ll be an enlightening experience. And to make sure the Israelis don’t try to shelter you from the horrific image that IS the occupation, say you’re on your way to Gaza to bring medicine to the sick kids. Wait, that’ll get you jailed…possibly killed…in that spot.

  30. And sometimes I think of the backlash Jews would get if people really found out about the occupation. Would it come out like the Holocaust, where EVERYONE was outraged and ex-nazis till THIS day are being prosecuted. Almost 70 years later…for some reason I think it’s going to be a hush-mum thing. After all, we are Arab, we don’t deserve compensation, do we?

  31. elle,

    yeah those rockets. the ones made out of garbage. quassam? like i said i don’t get the point? it’s a terrible military stragey and a worst pr one. it’s so counter productive that it’s insane.

    “Israel was condemned internationally after the last incursion. But firing a long-range anti-tank weapon at a clearly marked yellow school bus may have been a further miscalculation on the part of Hamas.”

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1374922/Israel-kills-assault-Gaza-Palestinian-rocket-attack-school-bus.html#ixzz1X7sgFnQx

    yeah the arabs didn’t do to good in the six-days war in ’67. yes when i mention a country i mean its government, they are the ones incharge. i remember years ago seeing an iranian dissident on one of the sunday talk shows, and he said if the price of admission to america was and eye, you would have 40 million one eyed iranians. but i also remember as a kid when my dad own an apartment building and this guy came to look at a vacant one. he said he like the apartment but wouldn’t take it unless we replaced the sears refrigerator.

    “Hamas’ jackass leader Mahmoud Abbass I think is his name” sorry you missed on that one too. abbass is head of fattah. the jews won’t negotiate with hamas.

    anyways, sorry to hear your family was driven from their land. but you do know it’s not exclusive to arabs? hitler, stalin, mao, pol pot, saddam, kim jong-il. rainbows and candy are few and far between. that’s why it can be dishearting when people roll their eyes at american freedom. we’re a long way from perfect but at least we are moving in the right direction. i worked with a cambodian chic and she told me how her grandfather was buried up to his neck and then decapitated with a bulldozer blade. my sister-in-law’s mother fleed the phillipines with nothing but the clothes on her back. it’s too bad that the palestinians can’t find better leadership. maybe you can study poly-sci and help them out?

  32. That could be why my dad still supports Hamas. Or was it the old fatteh when Arafat was still in charge? Hm. Anyway, I’m angry that Israeli and Palestinaian kids have to be targets. Theyre just kids! They are being taught to hate, taught that “the other side” are monsters. Maybe their parents and elders dont know better because of their first hand experiences but they should not be targeted, an dneither should civilians. The prophet made it clear not to ever target kids women or elderly….or nature. And although the Jews don’t believe in Muhammad if they were true jews they wouldn’t believe in killing inncoent people. ugh.

  33. Actually I’m becoming a journalist and maybe writing a few books. Sorry, I’m not good with politics so…
    And its too bad the Palestinians dont have the freedom to get good leadership -_-

  34. I encourage you to read ‘Mornings in Jenin’ by susan abulhawa. its sooooooooooooo amazing. It WILL make you cry.

  35. “The pen is mightier than the sword”
    author Edward Bulwer-Lytton

  36. “The Islamic prophet Muhammad is quoted as saying “The ink of the scholar is holier than the blood of the martyr”.[12][13]”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_pen_is_mightier_than_the_sword

  37. i’ll put that book on my reading list, and i’ll add palestine to my travel list. but those lists are getting longer and longer, and i’m getting older and older.

    http://www.bbc.com/travel/feature/20110829-shopping-and-noshing-through-the-holy-land

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