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Pamela Geller Ready to Start Holy War Over Mistranslated Bumper Sticker

28 August 2011 33 Comments Email This Post Email This Post

Pamela Geller of Atlas Shrugs recently published an alarmist, fear-mongering article about some bumper sticker on a Honda Accord:

This just came in from “infidel” in Maine:

I saw this car in Portland yesterday August 24th, 2011.  I had to take a picture of this bumper sticker to share.  The translation on the sticker says “Help from Allah and present victory”

In Arabic it says “Victory from Allah, and invasion soon”  The word “FATTEH = Invasion” was used back in Muhammad’s days when he went from country to country killing people who don’t submit to Shariah.  After they were done, they would celebrate for the “FATTEH” of this country.

This bumper sticker was made for the USA, and was translated so it would sound good to the non-Arabic seaking American…

The car was driven by a burka.

First things first: I did not know “burka’s” could drive.

In any case, this is a mistranslation.  The bumper sticker reads nasr min Allah wa fatah qareeb, which translates to “Help and victory from God is near.” [Nasr = help, min Allah = from God, wa = and, fatah = victory, qareeb = near; so technically, it translates to “Help from Allah and victory is near” although I think my rendering flows a bit better.]

To say that it means “victory from Allah, and invasion soon” is purposefully misleading, blatantly incorrect, and obviously deceitful.

The bumper sticker is actually a verse from the Quran, namely verse 61:13:

Help and victory from God is near.  Give glad tidings to the faithful. (Quran, 61:13)

Interestingly enough, the very next verse gives the example of Jesus’ disciples:

O you who believe, be God’s helpers.  As Jesus, son of Mary, said to the disciples, ‘Who will come with me to help God?’ The disciples said, ‘We shall be God’s helpers.’ Some of the Children of Israel believed and some disbelieved: We supported the believers against their enemy and they were the ones who came out on top. (Quran, 61:14)

It is true that when this chapter of the Quran was revealed, it was in the context of war: the early Muslims were being persecuted for their faith and they were fighting a much stronger foe.  To boost their morale, the Quran reassured them: “Help and victory from God is near.”

Today, those words are used by Muslims whenever they face adversity, not just in the war context.  Certainly Jews and Christians shouldn’t make too much of a fuss about this, since they themselves do the same with Biblical passages.  For example, Psalm 3:8 from the Bible is often invoked by Jews and Christians:

Psalm 3:8 Victory comes from you, O Lord. May you bless your people.

This verse is contained in a “psalm of David”–a war poem.  David beseeches God for help against his enemies, saying:

Psalm 3:7 Arise, O LORD! Deliver me, O my God! Strike all my enemies on the jaw; break the teeth of the wicked.

This was revealed during David’s wars of conquest, in which he committed acts of ethnic cleansing and even genocide, which I’ve documented here.  Indeed, God grants “victory” to David, who subsequently “did not leave a man or woman alive” (I Sam. 18:11).

Yet, today Psalm 3:8–“Victory comes from you, O Lord”–is routinely invoked by Jews and Christians.  For example, this marketing website invokes the verse to say that God grants victory/success in one’s business adventures.  Does anyone think that the website is calling for the impending genocide against infidels?

There are several other Biblical verses in a similar vein, which were initially revealed in a war context (actually, in support of ethnic cleansing and genocide), but which are now used routinely by Jews and Christians for the every day struggles of life.  For example:

Deuteronomy 20:4 For the Lord your God is going with you! He will fight for you against your enemies, and he will give you victory!

This verse was said to be revealed to Moses before he conquered the Canaanites and then killed them all, in what can only be called genocide (which I documented here).  Yet, here we have a Christian using this same verse on a cutesy-looking card:


Should we sound the alarm?  Is this card a Christian-supremacist genocide card?

Or how about this:

Joshua 10:8 “Do not be afraid of them,” the Lord said to Joshua, “for I have given you victory over them.  Not a single one of them will be able to stand up to you.”

In spite of the fact that this verse references genocide (“not a single one of them will be able to stand up to you”)–refer to my earlier article for Joshua’s genocides–this verse is routinely used by Christians today.  Indeed, this website here uses the verse in an article about how to overcome your fears.

Similarly, the Quranic phrase “help and victory from God is near” is routinely used by Muslims whenever they find themselves in times of difficulty.  It is meant to reassure them that soon God will answer their prayers and grant them relief from hardship.

To immediately assume that the bumper sticker is a call for the invasion of America and the subjugation of infidels is truly ludicrous.   In any case, don’t you think the burka who that drove the car would want to keep the impending overthrow of America hush-hush instead of advertising it on her its car?

*   *  *  *  *

But what if some nutty Muslim somewhere decided to put up a crazy bumper sticker, so what?  Have you seen the crazy bumper stickers some Evangelical Christians put on their cars?  In fact, they actively sell them on “respectable” sites.

If you’re up in arms over the vaguely worded Quranic verse bumper sticker above, then what about the bumper stickers below which I found after just two minutes of searching on Google?

Bumper Sticker Calling for Shariah Biblical Law and the Killing of Gays:


Rule America With the Quran Bible:


America is a Christian Country:


America is a Christian Nation:


Hatred Against Christians Muslims:




Surely Pamela Geller should be more worried about this guy, right?  Isn’t “nuking Mecca” the same or worse than “conquest?”



You can find many, many “nuke Iran” bumper stickers.  Nothing wrong with that, right?

Bring Back the Crusades–You Know, the Holy War and Conquest of the Lands of Islam:


Another Crusades Decal:


Christian Jihad:


It’s Time to Play Cowboys And Muslims:


I could go on and on and on…

In fact, I’d be willing to bet that I could find 100 times as many bigoted uber-Christian, anti-Muslim bumper stickers than the other way around.  Pamela Geller found one–which she had to mistranslate to make her point–and she’s making such a big fuss about it.

That’s the thing with these Islamophobes: they live off of profound double-standards.  Who cares that I’ve just shown her bumper stickers from right-wing Christians that call for Sharia Biblical theocracy, holy war against the infidel, and nuclear holocaust.  Don’t you see that one bumper sticker on that one Honda Civic which, if you mistranslate it and look at it in one particular angle with just the right lighting, that might somehow (maybe?) call for something or the other Islamist-related?

Do you know how many crazy people there are out there in the world?  In our very own country no less?  Has Pamela Geller ever seen a campus rally during her college years?  She would have seen all sorts of crazy signs there: people holding the most absurdest of signs, from warnings of CIA microchips implanted in our brains to your garden-variety God Hates Fags signs…

If we condemned all religions for the sign or bumper sticker one crazy person from that faith used, every religion–including Christianity–would stand condemned.  But for Geller et al. Muslims are held to a very special standard.  She wants to single them out and demonize them.  Her message is very clear:

Be very afraid of the Moozlums!  They are coming to get you!  Kill them before they kill you!

*  *  *  *  *

On another note, we’re almost done fixing up the site after the recent hacking attack.  We’ll give you updates on that situation shortly.  Until then, we’ll only be occasionally publishing new articles.  But we should be back to normal soon…


  1. So if I have a bumper sticker that says:

    אֶשָּׂא עֵינַי, אֶל-הֶהָרִים– מֵאַיִן, יָבֹא עֶזְרִי

    Psalm 121 – “I will lift my eyes to the mountains — whence shall my help come?”

    According to Pam Geller, would this mean the IDF has landed in the rockies and is poised to invade the heartland? Give me a break…

  2. This woman needs to take a chill pill and relax! These people are taking paranoia to a whole new level! They scare me!

  3. Great piece!

    One bumper sticker that I’ve seen that got left out was “Kill ’em all. Let Allah sort them out.” That’s a remake of the old Vietnam war slogan, of course.

    You should add this legendary photo, too.
    It shows a pickup truck with a picture of the World Trade Center exploding on the tail gate. It was widely reposted approvingly by Islamophobes (including Spencer, if memory serves) online. Until CAIR pointed out how the license plate clearly included a coded white supremacist slogan praising Hitler. Shows you the kind of evil forces in society these bigots tap into. Some pictures really are worth a thousand words.

  4. Some American have never left their sub-division, the reason why they are so narrow minded. Educate yourselves.

  5. salim,

    “Some American have never left their sub-division, the reason why they are so narrow minded. Educate yourselves.” you may be right. so please educate us. so does the koran say gays can marry, have equal rights?

  6. Wow mike
    I guess I missed the part in the article which was talking about gay rights. Yea a few bumper stickers, but where did they all come from, that’s right ” christain” ppl who want ” jihad” and stuff. And no it doesnt, but catholicism, Christianity, Judaism all the abrahamic religion fobids homosexuality bcuz we belive men and women were made for each other, Adam and eve, two different sexes that started humanity by mating with each other. There wasn’t a third gender, or two sets of adams and eves that switched partners.
    But this does not mean that gays shouldn’t be treated like human brings bcuz they are humans so if a ” Muslim” or ” christain” person eggs a gay womans house or beat up a gay man they’re gonna be serving good time in hell

    and good lord this woman needs sense slapped into her. I volunteer my services. Whack!

  7. Mike,
    I really don’t know why you linking ignorance with homosexuality. Just as Elle said, Homosexuality is a sin since the begining of prophecy and not after the revelation of the Quran. Islam,Judaism or Christianity all take this as a disgusting sin. We Simply in Islam we do not hide the sins, We do not have the right to say this is the 21st cintury. A sin that was classified as a sin witll still a sin until the end of the world. As I am sure you are aware of the soooo many cases of children abused by priests, yet the Vatican tried to cover up those monsters, and simply move them to new locations, They did not care about the safety and well being of children with those Homo priest moved to. Believe me I have never heard of an Imam abusing a child and I am not saying this because I a muslim but this is the truth. In Islamic countries if an Imam is found to have sexually abused a child, I would simply say he is gone for ever, he wont be moved to other mosques. So yes I guess the reason why so many convert into this religion, because it is a One Law as set thousands of years and does not change. People know exactly where they stand.

    Please Mike Read the quran with an open heart, You might be guided as it is only Allah who guides. With regards to political issues that have targetted islam and muslims, I advise you to read instead of listening to Fox news and alike channels. Anohter thing, all what is going on about islam is no news to us as we all remember a saying of Prophet Mohamed peace be upn him, in the meaning of the saying that a time comes when the muslim nation will be attacked by other nations just like a plate of food that is encircled by a group of people eaating from it. I guess this is the time and I might be wrong, as it could be worst in the future after we would have departed this world. Only Allah knows.
    I hope I answered you.

  8. Salim,

    Rather then ridiculing Americans for not leaving their sub-divisions perhaps you should become educated about what really goes on in the Islamic world.Apparently you have not heard of the centuries old practice in Islamic Afghanistan of Bacha Bazi.

    “PBS’s Frontline has posted their latest piece online, and it is both fascinating and horrifying. “The Dancing Boys of Afghanistan” exposes the horrific practice called Bacha Bazi, in which young Afghan boys are sold to warlords and powerful businessmen to be trained as dancers who perform for male audiences in women’s clothing and are then used and traded for sex. The practice is sadly making a comeback in that country.”

    The UN has stepped in to try to end this disgusting practice in Afghanistan.

    I could tell you about other things that go on in Afghanistan that have been caught on tape by American soldiers and put on youtube. Sexual acts that would shock the conscience of the average American living in a “sub-division”. So do not lecture people about the moral superiority of Islam.In the age of the internet nothing remains hidden anymore.

  9. elle,

    thanks for your answer. yeah i just scanned the article last night. i guess what confused me was the crossing out of the word quran and replacing it with bible? is not the bible a sacred text to muslims? do not the two books concur on “god’s law” about homosexuality? what is the punishment for homosexuality in islam? so you beleive that all people came from adam and eve?

    anyways as for the arctilce in it’s totallity: “I did not know “burka’s” could drive” maybe it’s a cultural thing but sometimes americans refer to something by a part representing the whole. like you might ask someone if they got “wheels”, when actually asking if they have a car. “In fact, I’d be willing to bet that I could find 100 times as many bigoted uber-Christian, anti-Muslim bumper stickers than the other way around”. of course there are 300 times as many non-mulsims than muslims in america.

    i never follow this deflection strategy. look the christians are as bad or worst than us. look the god of abraham had moses (again isn’t moses a prohpet to muslims) commit genocide. “Have you seen the crazy bumper stickers some Evangelical Christians”, i agree christians who want to impose “their god’s law” on the rest of us are a scary bunch. but luckily i think most american christians can seperate their religious beliefs from thier politics. and i think american christians are becoming even more laissez faire then they have been in the past, say the 50s. yes the cultural conservitives would like to see a return to the 50s, but they are losing that fight.

    the constitution clearly states there is to be a seperation of religion and state. but i keep hearing that islam is and “all encompasing religion”, commingling religion and state. this is inconsitant with american ideals, don’t you think?

  10. Of course the bible and Torah are sacred to us but you do realize that extremist christains and other ignorant people don’t know that, bcuz they don’t seem to give a crap about truth.
    And yes, in America we separate religion from politics although the owners of those bumper stickers say otherwise. But Islamic law in itself is like it’s own constitution for no not America silly, but for the fertile crescent region, the middle east, north Africa and some of southeast Asia, if people belived in the law sent by the prophet himself we wouldn’t be in the mess we are in. And mike why the he’ll are you trying to make it seem like Muslims are just so cruel while the rest of the world is like rainbows and candy?
    First of all, christains and Catholics on the 1600’s were still duking their wives In the frozen lakes and hitting their daughters if they didn’t have a proper and modest dress on, and way before that Muslim women were owning their own homes and businesses. So first of all, no one should use the term wifebeater or anti feminist on a Muslim male until they look at their own history. Ancient arabs uses to practice slavery and female infantcide but islam abolished it all. Didn’t Americans both christain and otherwise have slaves until the 1800’s and of course there’s no forgetting the kkk…
    I’m not saying the Muslim leaders of this world are perfect bcuz they aren’t. Suddam Hussein bin laden the Taliban, even going back to the leaders if the ottoman empire have corrupted the ways of Islam but honestly look at the history of other religions before you poke at one that you haven’t you practiced or completed studies of.

  11. salim,

    “don’t know why you linking ignorance with homosexuality” i don’t know where i did that? you said “Educate yourselves”, so i asked a question. isn’t asking questions an important part of education. do you not gain knowledge through inqury? “We do not have the right to say this is the 21st cintury. A sin that was classified as a sin witll still a sin until the end of the world”, doesn’t sound very open minded of you. perhaps you should get out of the mosque and go to a republican logcabin meeting, mingle with some gays. what does the bible say, don’t worry about the spec in your brother’s eye while you have a log in your own. so what is the penalty for homosexual acts?

    as for “So yes I guess the reason why so many convert into this religion, because it is a One Law as set thousands of years and does not change. People know exactly where they stand.” not sure who’s question you’re answering but really, i thought there are 4 major schools of jurisprudance in islam, and that they disagree on some things, blasphamy for instance? hey that brings me back to rushdie. did you like khomeini’s fatawa? what school do you adhere to? are you american? you’re not shia are you.

    lol..”read instead of listening to Fox news and alike channels”
    i haven’t owned a tv for more than a year. so do you find the bbc to be an exceptable scource of news?

  12. elle,

    “And mike why the he’ll are you trying to make it seem like Muslims are just so cruel while the rest of the world is like rainbows and candy?”, i don’t know where i did that. you’re going to have to point that out for me. if i said something so stupid as to make it seem that i think the non-islamic world is rainbows and candy, i will happily retract that. i see the chinesse arrested another tibetan monk. did you see the mexican drug war hit a casino, 52 killed, sub-sahra africa is a mess, you got farc in columbia and i here rumors that the shinning path is trying to reconstitute itself, castro, chavez, morales, but at least the korean peninsula is like rainbows because that kim jong-il is like a kitten. come on elle, and you call me silly. but that’s alright.

    “Didn’t Americans both christain and otherwise have slaves until the 1800′s and of course there’s no forgetting the kkk…” of cource, who has ever denied that. america is far from perfect, but we don’t claim “divine writ” either. our laws are open to change.

    “practiced slavery…but islam abolished it all”, strange i thought the prophet himself had slaves. didn’t saudi arabia practice slavery up until 1962, mauritiana didn’t outlaw slavery until the 80s and really still do have slaves today? haven’t there been muslims calling for a return of slavery? what did one guy say, “to forbid what allah allows is as bad as allowing what allah forbids.”

    anyways the reason i asked you about adam and eve, is because the last time i saw my buddies brother, who’s an evangelical and i asked him that. though it would be interesting to see how your answers compared?

    take it easy.

  13. Nope, the Prophet had house servants, and he helped them out too. Slaves don’t get their own houses, get paid, or eat with the “master” the prophet was an employerto the house help.
    Slavery wss ABOLISHED, I’m sorry if you can’t realize that there STILL are some nutjobs who think that way, freaks who think Allah allows slavery
    The first mua’zzin in Islam was a freed slave named Bilal ibn Rabah, he was abyssinian, and when someone called him “son of a black SLAVE” the prophet was apalled and told the man to repent to God and ask Bilal’s forgivness.
    Abu Bakr saw a man beating at and torturin Bilal (while he was still a aslave) and since Islamic law hadn’t become that of ancient Mekka, he bought Bilal and then freed him.
    My GOD if someone calls for slavery he ain’t a goddamn Muslim, like how much do I have to explain to you that the freakin’ middle east is run by extremists and freaks?
    By the way, Allah uses the words “slave” in the Quran, but he’s speaking about the human race as a whole, us, his servants, his creations.

  14. Slavery is the torture and capture of a person, or a group of people, who the hell said God wanted that. He’s our only Master. He decreed that no one is allowed to a) take a life (kill) b) enslave a life (keeping slaves) because he is our only Creator, he has our lives in His hands. If someone thinks he can change that then screw him ’cause God stated otherwise, but if you decided that the entire Muslim population thinks something because of one guy or a group of misled nitwits then you must be Pamela geller in disguise.

    You know , I know there are ignorant people out there, Muslims included, some that even pray next to me at the Mosque but like honestly…

    You know I started to think of you as an educated, intelligent person but I’m realizing otherwise…

  15. elle,

    my earlier comment didn’t make it through moderation. too many links i assume. it went something like this: doesn’t the koran say to free a believing slave if you accidently kill a believer. and that freeing a slave forgivess a great sin. in order to free a slave you have to first enslave someone, don’t you? then i looked up some hadiths and linked the pages to each of them. i won’t do that on this comment.

    Volume 3, Book 41, Number 598:
    Narrated Jabir: A man manumitted a slave and he had no other property than that, so the Prophet cancelled the manumission (and sold the slave for him). No’aim bin Al-Nahham bought the slave from him.

    Volume 7, Book 62, Number 137:
    Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

    We got female captives in the war booty and we used to do coitus interruptus with them. So we asked Allah’s Apostle about it and he said, “Do you really do that?” repeating the question thrice, “There is no soul that is destined to exist but will come into existence, till the Day of Resurrection.”

    Volume 3, Book 47, Number 765:
    Narrated Kurib:

    the freed slave of Ibn ‘Abbas, that Maimuna bint Al-Harith told him that she manumitted a slave-girl without taking the permission of the Prophet. On the day when it was her turn to be with the Prophet, she said, “Do you know, O Allah’s Apostle, that I have manumitted my slave-girl?” He said, “Have you really?” She replied in the affirmative. He said, “You would have got more reward if you had given her (i.e. the slave-girl) to one of your maternal uncles.”

    you don’t have to torture someone for them to be a slave. anyways i think you are wrong on islam abolishing slavery.

    as for “but if you decided that the entire Muslim population thinks something because of one guy or a group of misled nitwits then you must be Pamela geller in disguise.” again you are going to have to point out to me where i said that. i’m 99.999% sure i never made any statement even remotely close to that. muslims are a very diverse group.

    “You know I started to think of you as an educated, intelligent person but I’m realizing otherwise…” funny i just read your post on the cia article and was thinking the same thing about you. sorry your teacher would say something like that, but some teachers aren’t the brightest people, despite their position. i remember a teach during the iran hostage crisis say that there where 15,000 iranian students studing in the US and that we should hold them all hostage. sorry you feel undersiege and hopefully this is a temperary case of you letting anger get the better of you. or perhaps your youth is showing?


  16. Mike
    oh I kno allllll about those Ayahs really I do, and guess what, they weren’t slaves like the black slaves of colonial America or the Indian slaves of Britain, like I said they were like servants, and in the olden days if you were a servant you were free and able to make decisions, but they still have a master, not an owner, but like an olden day employer.

    Ok about the maternal uncle one, he meant as a servant and your missing one detail it wasn’t rape or real ownership. And no matter what to have sex with another human being you have to we’d them. So what that guy did is absolutely wrong and the reason why he said give her to the uncle so she could (if willing) marry him, be his wife….

    And I do remember that my teacher told me since slavery was abolished by Islam that freeing them would be kinda impossible so unless you lived in a different country where slavery was still legal, you might be able to buy a slave and free one.

    And about the captured Islam if the Muslims won a battle the money, and people of the village became part of Islam. The women shouldn’t be captured like in chains and be like idk beaten but she can become a servant, a nursemaid or a wife, but only if she is a widow. A women with a family to care for should be left alone. And the money shouldn’t be used for personal gain( the prophet lived poorer than most folk, and he chose t live that way) it goes to charity, but the prophet never took the money or women for that matter. He lived humbly. Anyway I can see why you’d think that whole slave thing is real…. Another case of mistranslation, and I guess not thinking through by the people who posted it all.

  17. Mike,

    You must be living in cookoo land for you to advise to go mingle with gays. you can only get mw to mingle with gays when I am dead and drag my corpse into such places.
    i guess you either are trying to find out about islam and I guess we can advise you on some good websites, or you know about it but confused. you let us know.

  18. elle,

    you maybe right that “they weren’t slaves like the black slaves of colonial America or the Indian slaves of Britain”. it does seem to be a kinder gentler form of slavery then that. or than the pre-islamic arabs or the greeks or the romans. but it’s still slavery. if you can’t just walk away from your “master” you are by definition a slave. even in the olden days you could quit your job. if you can be sold to another master to settle his debt you are a slave in my book. noticed you didn’t touch that hadith?
    “why he said give her to the uncle so she could (if willing) marry him, be his wife” could the woman not just ask one of the uncles (if willing)to marry her? why “give” her, doesn’t setting her free allow her to marry anyone (if willing) she wants?

    “Another case of mistranslation, and I guess not thinking through by the people who posted it all.” those are from the university of southern california. i’ll see if putting a space in the website link will get it past the moderator.

  19. salim,

    “i guess you either are trying to find out about islam and I guess we can advise you on some good websites, or you know about it but confused. you let us know.” it’s not an either or. i am trying to find out about islam, and i do know a little and am confused. for instance i hear islam is a tolerant religion. but tolerant of what, obviously not fags! yes to you i may very much seem to be on cookoo island. anyways, why is it no one will answer my rushdie question?

    so what websites ya got 4 me?

    I never knew how to worship until I knew how to love.
    Henry Ward Beecher

  20. Mike, does someone like to use euphemisms (less-offensive terms for “slaves” [arabic abd])? Some people may find them very convenient.

  21. kaatib,

    what up? so abd is slave in arabic? i see several guys names as begining with Abd. anyways this translation thing is tough. muhammad asad’s understanding the koran says in his 26th footnote of the 4th surah on page 123 in referance to the first sentence of the 24th verse: “as for the expression ma malakat aymanukum (“those whom your right hand possess”, i.e., “those who you rightfully possess”), it is often taken to mean female slaves captured in a war in God’s cause (see in this connection 8:67, and the corresponding note). The commentators who choose this meaning hold that such slave-girls can be taken in marriage irrespective of whether they have husbands in the country of their origin or not. However, quite apart from the fundamental differences of opinion, even among the Companions of the Prophet, regarding the legality of such a marriage, some of the most outstanding commentators hold the view that ma malakat aymanukum denotes here “women who you rightfully possess through wedlock”; thus Razi in his commentary on this verse, and Tabari in one of his alternative explanations (going back to Abd Allah ibn Abbas, Mujahid, and others).

    30th footnote to verse 25: In this context, ma malakat aymanukum (lit., “those whom your right hand possess”) denotes women who were captured in a holy war and have subsequently embraced islam.

    33rd footnote in the same verse: The weaker social status of the slave makes her, obviously, more accessible to temptation than a free married woman is presumed to be.

  22. “The Qur’an includes multiple references to slaves, slave women, slave concubinage, and the freeing of slaves. It accepts the institution of slavery. It may be noted that the word ‘abd’ (slave) is rarely used, being more commonly replaced by some periphrasis such as ma malakat aymanukum (“that which your right hands own”). The Qur’an recognizes the basic inequality between master and slave and the rights of the former over the latter.”

  23. Mike

    Abd means slave f God, and my cousin is named Abd, no one chained him up and whipped him like a dog. :/ And maybe in the olden days servitude seemed a lot lik slavery, so I guess I can’t totally blame you.


    Uh, doesn’t Islam teach tolerance? And the Prophet said don’t be rude and intolerant to anyone of any race or religion. If you want to teach them, be kind and gentle because you”l drive them away and make them dislike you…, sheesh your making it seem like we’re all a bunch of angry nuts. Didn’t the prophet also say to refrain from anger? So do that, please, you’re mthod of argument and debate makes us look bad. Thanks. Also, the Prophet siad do not try to argue with an extremely ignorant/stupid person because in the end they won’t listen to you. That saying stems from the Surah “Abasa” when the prophet was tryig to teach a very ignorant man with no respect for him, and when a blind old man came and asked the prophet very gently if he could learn too, the Prophet gave him an impatient look. And God counted that glare as a sin, and the Prophet was distraught for having ignored the truth-seeking man for an arrogant, narcissistic guy.

    Just give it some thought.

  24. And Allah calls all humans as His slaves, His servants, because we are His creation, we strive to do His bdding in this life. Before Islam, women were bought into slavery, as a part of anti-feminism in the Jahiliyyah (ignorant times) and were used for everything :marriage, nurses, nannies, sexual slaves, or just chained up and beaten all the time but that kind of thing was thrown out when Islam came. If you have a afemale servant, you may marry her if she consets, you can’t rape her or have sexual relations with her, you can’t beat her, or treat her like dirt, and God knows you can’t kill her. People “traded” servants sometimes and but as a servant you were there as such, if they mistreated you you told whoever you could and your master or whoever in charge would be punished. No one deserves to be killed or hurt, only God can make that decision.

  25. And Mike I’m leaving that for you to find out, keep reading, all you r questions wil be answered, hold on, I might be able to find an email/link to a mosque I know and love

    the Imams here are very intelligent and patient. They also know a lot more than i do. good luck.

  26. elle,

    ok, not sure what you would “totally blame” me for? anyways it seems like you are a politician in training. i guess we will have to agree to disagree on the definition of servant/slave. being able to sell someone and freedom, to not be a servant, to leave, are my sticking points. you seem to be hung up on physical abuse? anyways i asked iman said and the sheikh from the link noor sent me. awaiting replies.

  27. from ask the shiekh,

    my question: Was slavery abolished in the time of Muhammad? Some say he had slaves others say, no they were servants. I read a Hadith, it doesn’t really say but I guess a guy dies, and had manumitted his slave, but I guess he had some debt? Then it says that Muhammad canceled the manumitting and sold the slave to pay the debt.

    Ask The Shaikh [] answered: I have been asked this question about slavery before and this is the answer I gave to the person who previously asked this question.
    This should answer your question and go a little more in depth.

    In order to understand the answer to your question, you have to understand the background relating to the question you are asking.

    In the time that Islam was revealed to Prophet Mohammad and even before that time, slaves were treated as merchandise, whether in Rome, Persia, Europe, or the Arabic Peninsula. Slaves had no rights, to the point where if one person wanted to kill their slave, they would not be punished in any way since the slave was considered a piece of merchandise, and killing the slave was like killing a bug or an unwanted animal. Slaves were whipped, treated inhumanely, and treated as animals rather than the human beings that they are.

    Islam was revealed with slaves being in this situation, and Islam, in the Quran and the hadith, set principles and rules specific to slaves, whether male or female, in order to change the way they were treated in society, worse than animals, and raise the level of their treatment so that society saw them as human beings. Not only that, but Islam set rules that would eventually free all slaves in society; it did not free all slaves in society at once, as the world was run on that basis and Islam dealt with the problem in a step by step process. The rules that were set are the following(all of which are in the Quran and the Sunnah):

    1. If someone, in a time of peace, takes another human being as a slave, it is considered one of the biggest sins in Islam, to the point where it is considered worse than killing a human being, and Allah does not look into the face of someone who enslaves a free man. (The exception to this rule are prisoners of war, who would be taken as slaves, as that was the way the enemies of Islam {Romans, Persians, Europeans} dealt with the Muslims prisoners of war.)

    2. One of the best deeds to Allah, and in Islam, is the freeing of a slave, and Allah says that whoever frees a slave voluntarily, Allah will free him from Hell fire on the Day of Judgment.

    3. If anyone, even jokingly, states that his slave is free, then the slave becomes officially free.

    4. Consequences of actions that lead to freeing a slave:
    a-Whoever of the Muslims swears by Allah, and then does fulfill the task he swore he would do, then he must free a slave as a consequence.
    b-Whoever of the Muslims has any sexual relations with his wife during a day in Ramadan, he must free a slave.

    c-Whoever says to his wife that she is like his mother (without telling her she is divorced) he must free a slave before he can continue his relationship with his wife.
    d-Whoever kills someone accidently, he must free a slave
    e-And the list goes on and on.

    5. Islam set rules to treating slaves. People used to hit/whip/mutilate(cut off limbs[nose, ear, arm, etc.]) their slaves without any reason. The Prophet PBUH said, to change this that “whoever kills his slave, We (as in the authority) will kill him. And whoever cuts off the nose of his slave, We will cut off his nose.” This gave slaves dignity and made them humans in society, as the masters could not treat them harshly and inhumanely as they willed. Also, the prophet said to the believers to “feed the slaves of the same food that you eat, and give them drink of the same drink that you(the owners) drink, and do not burden them with that which tasks that they cannot accomplish, and if you want to give them a difficult task that is tough on them, then help them complete the task that you assigned (so the master and the slave would be working together).

    6. One of the dowries (mahr) of a slave woman is to free her and marry her accordingly.

    Now, as for your question, in the past, yes, it was halal for a man to have sexual intercourse with his female slaves without marriage, of course, with the many rules in the Books of Fiqh that relate to this issue and the specifics of what the do’s and don’ts are depending on each situation. These specifics are mentioned in many books, but it is unnecessary to study them in our current time since having slaves is haram, as Islam came to free the slaves, and thus no one can have sexual intercourse with anyone but their wife through marriage. The problem that Islam dealt with in society 1500 years ago was the same problem that caused a Civil War in America just 200 years ago. No Muslim, even if wars occur and there are prisoners of war, can ever enslave a human being or even deal with the basis of slavery at all. It is also prohibited in Islam to buy and sell human beings, or even to buy and sell any part of the human body, and it is prohibited for any man or woman to have any relationship except marriage, with the conditions that come with marriage.

  28. Ok. And another thing Mike, you have to really understand the history OF Islam, Christianity, AND Judaism from the surahs in the Quran to understand what I’m always trying to explaiin to you. From when Moses journeyed with a seeker who committed what would be sins for other humans, like killing achild an reading on to find out exactly what God’s plan for the boy was. Or the story of how Zakariyah kept Mariam (Mary) locked in a little room her whole life to keep her chaste, as he was like an uncle to her. It’s hard to explain but for me, I’ve been learning about Quraysh, Mecca, the history of the Kaabah, and every prophet mentioned in the Quran since I was 7, you have to know the full on history to really accept and understand the teachings of the Quran.

    Oh also, you should probably read th Quran from the back, start with the early Surahs of Mecca, the shorter ones that state the earliest rules of Islam. Simple things like, “Allah is one, he has no partner, no lineage no ancestors.”

    Oh yea, and in Surat al Nast, which is about 3 ayahs long, states the very same verse that Pamela Geller is ready to condemn us for :

    “Iza ja’a Nasr Allah Wal Fatteh” If that women looked at the translation in EVERY quran its the same thing Fatteh means victory, not “invasion” Go on google translate, type in invasion and translate to Arabic, it says GHAZZU, not fatteh. Anyway, Mike, act as though your just a little kid going to Saturday school and start with the small surahs. They are easier to learn and absorb. Trust me.

  29. elle,

    The Help
    In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

    [110.1] When there comes the help of Allah and the victory,
    [110.2] And you see men entering the religion of Allah in companies,
    [110.3] Then celebrate the praise of your Lord, and ask His forgiveness; surely He is oft-returning (to mercy).


    إذا جاء نصر الله والفتح

    When the victory of Allah has come and the conquest,


    ورأيت الناس يدخلون في دين الله أفواجا

    And you see the people entering into the religion of Allah in multitudes,


    فسبح بحمد ربك واستغفره إنه كان توابا

    Then exalt [Him] with praise of your Lord and ask forgiveness of Him. Indeed, He is ever Accepting of repentance

    When god’s succour comes, and victory, and thou seest people enter god’s religion in hosts, extol thy Sustainers limitless glory, and praise Him, and seek His forgiveness: for, behold, He is ever an acceptor of repentance.

    “Mike, act as though your just a little kid” lol, that should be easy salim already thinks i act like a kid.

  30. elle,

    yeah i have read that one before? i’ve jumped around on the univ of michigan’s site before i got this hard copy of the koran. a guy from cair gave it to me after we had dinner a couple of times.. he also told me about two races of giants that livied on the arabia peninsula that god destroyed because they wouldn’t worship him.

    [18.65] Then they found one from among Our servants whom We had granted mercy from Us and whom We had taught knowledge from Ourselves.
    [18.66] Musa said to him: Shall I follow you on condition that you should teach me right knowledge of what you have been taught?
    [18.67] He said: Surely you cannot have patience with me
    [18.68] And how can you have patience in that of which you have not got a comprehensive knowledge?
    [18.69] He said: If Allah pleases, you will find me patient and I shall not disobey you in any matter.
    [18.70] He said: If you would follow me, then do not question me about any thing until I myself speak to you about it
    [18.71] So they went (their way) until when they embarked in the boat he made a hole in it. (Musa) said: Have you made a hole in it to drown its inmates? Certainly you have done a grievous thing.
    [18.72] He said: Did I not say that you will not be able to have patience with me?
    [18.73] He said: Blame me not for what I forgot, and do not constrain me to a difficult thing in my affair.
    [18.74] So they went on until, when they met a boy, he slew him. (Musa) said: Have you slain an innocent person otherwise than for manslaughter? Certainly you have done an evil thing.
    [18.75] He said: Did I not say to you that you will not be able to have patience with me?
    [18.76] He said: If I ask you about anything after this, keep me not in your company; indeed you shall have (then) found an excuse in my case.
    [18.77] So they went on until when they came to the people of a town, they asked them for food, but they refused to entertain them as guests. Then they found in it a wall which was on the point of falling, so he put it into a right state. (Musa) said: If you had pleased, you might certainly have taken a recompense for it.
    [18.78] He said: This shall be separation between me and you; now I will inform you of the significance of that with which you could not have patience.
    [18.79] As for the boat, it belonged to (some) poor men who worked on the river and I wished that I should damage it, and there was behind them a king who seized every boat by force.
    [18.80] And as for the boy, his parents were believers and we feared lest he should make disobedience and ingratitude to come upon them:
    [18.81] So we desired that their Lord might give them in his place one better than him in purity and nearer to having compassion.
    [18.82] And as for the wall, it belonged to two orphan boys in the city, and there was beneath it a treasure belonging to them, and their father was a righteous man; so your Lord desired that they should attain their maturity and take out their treasure, a mercy from your Lord, and I did not do it of my own accord. This is the significance of that with which you could not have patience.

    yeah moses don’t listen very well or have much patience. do muslims believe that he was kept out of the promised land because he struck the rock twice, instead of the once, that god commanded?

  31. AHHH I love that surah I was reading what you posted and I was translating it back into Arabic i my head, reciting the verses, oh I miss learning the Quran in school. Sigh.

    Please don’t call it the “promised land” because its Heaven, not Palestine. And I’m not sure, I don’t think I remember.

    And haha, yea that Salim…:P

  32. sorry about the “promised land” damn my catholic upbringing..

  33. lol catholics…you and your nuns

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