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Well I do feel for this woman and the abuse should stop. I have a story here of a Christan Pastor about to be killed by Muslims because he will not renounce his faith. http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/09/28/iranian-pastor-faces-execution-for-refusing-to-recant-christian-faith/

I do not normally read fox but the story is interesting, I realize this is in Iran, but both the pastor and his wife were and are being harrassed by Muslim authorities and now the man is about to be killed. I am thinking the man would prefer verbal abuse to death. It is at least a story that should be placed on “Loonwatch” in that everyone involved in the case barring the pastor and his family must be Loons.

//criley401
28 September 2011 at 5:14 pm

Hate is taught, these kids clearly harbor hate to Muslims that they must have learned from their environment at home or at school. Thankfully, hate can be unlearned just as quickly, the hard part is instilling values of tolerance and respect for all people regardless of what you personally believe.

And in response to criley401’s comment, I am a muslim and I can tell you for a fact that Islam does not support what the Iranian courts are ruling. Islam preaches clearly and strongly that Muslims must be tolerant the faith of others, no exception. What’s worse is that they are forcing this pastor (if the story is true) to accept Islam, something Islam also clearly states is entirely prohibited. Islam teaches and stresses religious tolerance and that conversion or reversion to Islam be performed without any force. We can provide correct information about Islam to help one in their decision whether or not to convert, but we absolutely cannot force someone to accept Islam. It’s no wonder the pastor converted to Christianity, I would too if that false representation of Islam was given to me!

Many of the so-called “Muslims” or “Islamic state” do such an abysmal job at practicing and representing Islam (whether this is due to ignorance or intentional manipulation of the religious teachings to satisfy their own personal agenda) that they can not be taken to represent the true meaning of Islam. Many of my friends converted to Islam, and if they just accepted Islam to be what was portrayed by self-acclaimed “Muslims” as opposed to researching what Islam really is from legitimate and reliable sources, they would have never converted.

(Notice I differentiate between the words “tolerance” and “acceptance”; to “accept” something means to take another belief or lifestyle and apply it as your own; to “tolerate ” a lifestyle, religion or belief is to peacefully live alongside that person and their beliefs despite the fact that you yourself have a different belief, religion or lifestyle.)

//Salam
28 September 2011 at 6:48 pm

Criley

I agree, the abuse on both sides should stop, it’s against both faiths. As Muslims you have to respect people of all faith, as Christians and jews are like our sister faiths. It’s really sickening that people can’t be tolerant, can’t even follow the religion correctly.

Fox is almost never correct but I can see that happening in iran, saudi and pakistan. Actually I think I could see it happening here too. i don’t know why but for some reason some Muslims wil think themselves superior but God sent Judaism and Christianity first, and we have the same message overall and for that reason we should come together. It’s not right. The prophet was kind and never overbearing on anyone of any different faith. He dined with Jews (because they eat kosher like us) and he invited Christians to stay at his home. When someone bothered a jew or christian in town he stopped the abuse once and for all and he never, ever, ever, tried to force Islam on anyone. He would preach it, but despite what people say he never antagonized or killed a single human being because of a different religion.

I hate Iran and all those other countries. Amazing how the places that started Christianity and Islam could go so corrupt. Alhamdulilah (praise be to God) we have some sane people in this world that will correct falsehoods and represent Islam in an honest and good manner.

//Elle
28 September 2011 at 7:54 pm

This just discusts me! Think about what you say always, and you must consider others around you. I may not be muslim, but I have many muslim friends and the fact is that NO ONE deserves hatred and EVERYONE deserves respect. One day I hope that we will have less discrimination and more love.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfH81Nr_RNE

//Eric
28 September 2011 at 8:55 pm

Although, what is happening in Iran is awful, we are talking about America here. You are taking an advantage in the conversation that is completely unethical for a serious debate. Bu to address your point I say this, if you go to Rome, you must play by Roman rules. I do not believe that we should create an atmosphere in America that would encourage a similar situation one day happening to a Muslim American here. Now you will argue that it is an “unknown” and can not be argued, but as I have already pointed out, your argument is just as illogical, as it is compairing apples and oranges. On a another note, my mother was a single parent of 6 kids and my sister was a single parent of 2. I supported them both fully emotionally and helped them financially any way I could. Raising their children I know was tough. Being a single mother now, I assure you, I would much rather try to do it in my mothers day, because, when she said she did not get a fair shake and told of her hardships, everyone believed her. They also heaped abuse on her, but no on tried to deny she was experiencing it, now I am told, often and vocally, by family that I am just lazy and irresponsible, even though I have went to college, and the first part of my life was a lesson in overcoming hardship, after having my son at 34, and having endured blatant discrimination as a woman and this hidden, back stabbing discrimination I have received since becoming a single parent, I assure you it so much worse mentally, that I would prefer the out there abuse.

//Victoria Hess
28 September 2011 at 9:04 pm

Islam does not force religion..this is not Islamic..Allah says if someone is forced it is not accepted..so these people..or this propagandas is false.

//Noor al ahayat
28 September 2011 at 9:05 pm

It’s bad enough the mother suffers from this, but the children as well? Especially the young one? How cruel…

//Harmony
28 September 2011 at 9:08 pm

I don’t see how a story about an atrocity in Iran is relevant to a story about bigotry in America. Nothing–not the fact that a Christian may be executed in Iran nor global warming nor the horrific death toll of Japan’s tsunami–exonerates or reduces the shame of the bigotry this woman is facing here in America, where we (used to) pride ourselves (rightly or wrongly) on being more tolerant towards others and more respectful of religious freedom than the rest of the world.

Since the Iranian case has now been brought into the discussion, whether to exonerate or divert attention from the guilty I can’t say, might as well comment on it. He’s not being executed for being a Christian, but for renouncing Islam, so the FOX News title is misleading–something we’ve come to expect from FOX, obviously. His crime is apostasy, not being a Christian. Islam does not allow forced conversion, nor does it allow execution of someone for being a Christian. It is the fact that the courts claim he was born a Muslim and he has now renounced Islam that he is being punished for. So, that’s not persecution of Christians, but persecution of former Muslims. Either way it is sick and wrong, but it reduces the comparison to the original case even further.

Corrupt governments like Iran’s do corrupt things. There is probably some political or personal motive underlying this case that we don’t know about. Obviously the guy didn’t convert recently, and as a pastor wasn’t keeping it a secret, so something else caused them to arrest him. The problem isn’t the religion, nor the people of Iran, it’s the government and its abuses. We should never, NEVER, try to excuse something in this country by pointing out that something in Iran is worse–we should have much higher standards than that. We should assume that there are worse things happening in Iran. And we should use that to guide us to being even better people, not bring it up to lessen the shame of abuses here.

//Joe
28 September 2011 at 10:01 pm

I think the point being made is that being called names by children for being Muslim pales in comparison to facing a death sentence for leaving Islam. Why would anyone be killed simply for changing their religion in 2011? What other religion kills people who convert to another religion or no religion? If Muslims can come to the West and speak out about Palestinian rights why should other concerned citizens not be able to speak about the persecution of Christians in places like Iran, Saudi Arabia and Egypt? America is a country that is 85% Christian.

//Hera
29 September 2011 at 10:30 am

joe,

first of all i’m pretty sure shipley is in england. with street names like Canal Road and Gaisby Lane. so by your reasoning shouldn’t the real question is why is americans against islamobhobia have a story out of england. or why don’t they by line it at least so ignorant people don’t contribute this behavoir to here (america)? jk joe, the word ignorant just cracks me up now everytime i see. but seriously this is out of england. so what school of jurisprudance in islam do you adhere? hang on looks like there is agreeance on this one. kill him!

“According to the four mainstream schools of Islamic law (sharia), its punishment is execution, but a minority of Islamic scholars propose no punishment at all as long as they “do not work against the Muslim society or nation.””

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

salam,

see the problem is the koran is not specific enough. is says you can kill someone for spreading mischief or corruption? that could be just about anything?

//m2
29 September 2011 at 2:39 pm

m2

if you leave Islam, you Shouldn’t be punished. We should realize that its the persons choice. Some people left Islam like Ramlah bint Abu Sufyan’s husband who went to Abyssinia and converted to Christianity. No one forced forced anything on him, you know? Most muslims would view it (punishing someone for that kinda thing) as an atrocity but its the gov, the government I tell you, thats the problem.

//Elle
29 September 2011 at 8:51 pm

and wikipedia is open to editing, you know.

Although in the Quran itself, it’s up to a person to do what they like. For example, I know a guy that became Christian. No one did anythig to him. We were a little sad, but hey, his choice right?

//Elle
29 September 2011 at 8:53 pm

Elle,

You are right, it is up to people to do what ever they like, however there are rules with regards to apostates when commanded by Islamic Laws.

“No one did anythig to him. We were a little sad, but hey, his choice right?”
Of course no one is allowed to lift a finger to hurt him, things are done through Islamic judgments, and not any one from the public goes and act on a persons sin.

The site of Muhamad al Munadjid from Saudi Arabia has some explanation about this subject. Check it

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/20060/convert%20to%20christianity

//Salim
30 September 2011 at 5:10 pm

BUT Islam doesn’t call for the murder, imprisonment or even verbal abuse of a converted person. We can be personally disappointed but we aren’t allowed to do any of that stuff

//Elle
30 September 2011 at 7:48 pm

To be honest with you. I do not consider myself even a student of Islamic knowledge, however I have never heard that an apostate is only verbally abused. Under the Islamic law, it is the judge’s decision and not any person’s decision. I guess the link I provided previously has enough explanation. Please send to the cheikh a question and give us some feed back

//Salim
1 October 2011 at 12:56 am

salim

unless the apostate has committed some crime like burning a mosque or killed/attacked a Muslim I don’t think he should be condemned for anything. Um Habeebah’s first husband wasn’t.

//Elle
1 October 2011 at 5:58 pm

Elle,
Do you know why Islam was preserved and did not change as other religions? Well because in Islam everything is based on sunnah and quran no space for I think or you think, however if there is a need for kiyass, then Scholars are there for this kind of work, surely not yours or mine. because scholars have he knowledge for it. When we are sick we go to see doctors, we don’t say oh I think I have this or that so let me write a prescription for myself. Same in religion we see the specialists, those of knowledge.

//Salim
1 October 2011 at 6:07 pm

and where did I disagree with this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX3UHNhQ1Zk

Something everyone should see. If you wanna understand Islam, don’t watch Glenn Beck, watch this. You’ll learn the Arab’s history, and the Muslim history. Very cool, very accurate.

//Elle
1 October 2011 at 7:00 pm

Elle
You did not disagree anywhere, I just wanted to emphasize about how much space there is for us to say I think which Obviously becomes our say and not an Islamic statement with proof. Anyway do not worry about it. it is good sometimes to agree to disagree!

//Salim
2 October 2011 at 7:11 am

I am a muslim revert like Tracy. Where I live there are a lot of muslims mainly from Pakistan and Bangladesh. The other day on the bus a woman pushed past me, when I said something she told me to “shut up you fat paki”. My daughter was shocked at this.

//Nour Smith
9 December 2012 at 9:38 am

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