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Publisher of ‘pro-Islam’ school textbook receives threats

1 October 2011 General 42 Comments Email This Post Email This Post

Police are looking into a series of online threats made against a Georgia textbook publisher after a parent complained that one of the books promoted Islam and polygamy.

The controversy began last week when Hal Medlin, the parent of a student at Campbell Middle School in Cobb County, Georgia, complained to the school about an assignment that he said “slanted positively” toward Islam.

From the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, the part of the assignment in question was called the “letter from Ahlima”: “The assignment by a teacher at Campbell Middle School, which asked students to write on the issue of dress codes, included a fictional two-page letter ostensibly written by a 20-year-old Saudi Arabian woman. In it, the character writes approvingly of wearing the Islamic veil – and of her fiance’s multiple wives and the law of Sharia.”

The letter is part of a unit in the textbook devoted to the Middle East, and according to the AJC is paired with a letter from an Israeli woman discussing her own life.

The story was picked up by anti-Islam blogger Pamela Geller, which she called “grotesque”. “Misogyny, homicide bombing, Jew hatred, packaged in multi-culti tolerance of Islam, is being spoon fed to our young,” Geller wrote.

And the publisher, InspirEd Educators, complained that a number of other bloggers made “terroristic threats” and that it has “received what the police have classified as hate email and phone calls, and the company and its staff have been threatened and discussed with threatening language on various websites and blogs.”

Local police say they are investigating the threats, which include one blogger’s comment that “there will be a blood bath,” according to WSB-TV.

An official for the publisher defended the lesson: “It’s important for kids to have some empathy for other people in the world. Some people think we’re trying to teach their children to be Muslims, and that could not be more ridiculous.”

Original post: Publisher of ‘pro-Islam’ school textbook receives threats

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42 Comments »

  1. If Pamela Geller ain’t crazy then according to international law she should be arrested.

    From Wikkipedia:

    Geller has also advocated against Islam elsewhere. She argued that the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem, one of Islam’s holiest sites, should be removed because it was built on the same site as Judaism’s former First and Second Temples.[28] Geller also published an article defending Radovan Karadžic, indicted for genocide and other war crimes against Bosnian Muslims and Croats during the Siege of Sarajevo and Srebrenica Massacre.

    from
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/aug/20/rightwing-blogs-islam-america

    “Geller has also spoken out in favour of the English Defence League. When the anti-Islamic organisation was planning a rally outside parliament earlier this year, she wrote: “How I wish I could be there to stand with the English Defense League”.
    Geller has claimed regular contact with the EDL leadership and recently published a screed by the organisation’s spokesman, Trevor Kelway. She said in one of her blogs: “I share the EDL’s goals … We need to encourage rational, reasonable groups that oppose the Islamisation of the West and not leave it solely to fringe groups like the BNP.”
    Geller has also said the EDL is misrepresented. “The EDL is routinely smeared in the British media, as the Tea Party activists are smeared in the US media … There is nothing racist, fascist, or bigoted about the EDL,” she wrote.”

    “She has allied herself with racist extremists in South Africa in promoting a claim that the black population is carrying out a “genocide” of whites.”
    “The politicians and other opportunists are stoking the fires,” said Marc Potok, who heads the centre’s operation to monitor the extreme right. “The politicians are in it because they want to win more seats. The Pamela Gellers of the world apparently will do anything they can to attack Islam and this Islamic centre has provided them with a very large opening.”
    “Potok says that Geller and others have crossed the line from legitimate debate”.

    From
    http://www.media-awareness.ca/english/issues/online_hate/when_is_hate_a_crime.cfm

    Online Hate and the Law

    Freedom of expression is central to a healthy democracy. Accordingly, although racist and hateful comments are offensive to the vast majority of Canadians, they are not necessarily illegal.

    The following section surveys the federal laws that prohibit some forms of hate speech.

    Criminal Code of Canada

    Sections 318 and 319 of the Criminal Code make it a criminal offence to:
    • advocate genocide
    • publicly incite hatred
    • wilfully promote hatred
    against an “identifiable group.”

    An identifiable group is defined as any section of the public distinguished by:
    • colour
    • race
    • religion
    • ethnic origin
    • sexual orientation
    The Criminal Code provisions are intended to prohibit the public distribution of hate propaganda. Private speech is not covered by the provisions.

    This woman is inciting hatred against Muslims and black people as seen in the guardian article (see link). She is trying to spread her venom into Europe too.
    Where is the new law on hatred incitement here?

  2. Salim, If you agree with what you say then there will be a lot of Muslims rounded up for some of the things they say. One can find instance after instance where Muslim speakers would violate these standards. I also agree with the mother in this instance. The article is about a woman in Saudi Arabia and it attempts to place the treatment of women in a good light. Saudi Arabia is a place where women can be lashed if they drive, are not allowed to vote, and treat women as chattel. http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7nRZLYdOEFEAj_BXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTB2OTBibzhwBHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA01TWTAxM18xODA-/SIG=12pi648rf/EXP=1317510617/**http%3a//www.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/news/world-south-asia-14190470

    The country marries off its children to old men under the guise of protecting the girls as young as 9 years of age from mixing with boys:(quote from Saudi newspaper today) “Outlawing the marriage of young girls to elderly men will have a negative effect on Saudi society as it will lead to mixing of the sexes which is impermissible in Islam, ” This quote was taken from the Saudi Gazette from an article addressing the issue .
    This is not only wrong but it is pathetic in the strongest sense of the word. Basically its is about old men pandering to their most base Desires with the excuse of keeping the female children away from men of their own age, whom they may be attracted to, in an effort to keep the girls from sinning. Defend this abomination if you will but the way the maids from the above link are treated is a strong indicator of the true nature of Saudi Desire and respect. Enshrinement within the law does not negate the Sin of the heart and getting a small girl to assent in front of a judge lessens everyone within the court room and makes them all culpable.

    To paint Saudi Arabia in a positive light in any way in regards to Women is sheer LOONACY and needs to make loon watch section. The people on this forum who defend Islam stolidly continually state that countries such as Saudi Arabia has a skewed view of Islam and that they practice the Islamic religion contrary to the teachings of the Koran. If my child came home with this assignment we would do some research and write an appropriate article in regards to Saudi treatment of women and overall attitudes of Saudi men. The publishers of this textbook should not be threatened but the books should have never been bought by the district.

  3. @salim
    you forgot to add the fact that she thinks halal soup is some kind of takeover plot by muslims and that obama is malcolm x’s love child look it up at loonwatch.

  4. Corey,

    You are right but it could be worst with this crazy lady.

    Criley,
    Your comment:
    “The publishers of this textbook should not be threatened but the books should have never been bought by the district”.

    Why we live in an era in which freedom of speech is accepted, or when it comes to Islamic values it ain’t anymore?

    I really do not see why you keep on about Saudi when Geller her problem is not Saudi but ISlam and Muslims.
    I am not going to try convince you about Saudi Arabia, but just highlight two points,
    One,
    What ever they are doing, I guess women are safer and not used as objects. In The following link you will see that a study done on % of rape in the work, Saudi is ranked last.
    Two,
    Saudi is not ISLAM and does not represent Muslims, they just happened to be where our Holy cities are. So no need to compare Islam or Muslims with Saudi Arabia, We have Allah’s Book and the Sunnah (example set during the life of our beloved prophet Mohamed peace be upon him).

    One More point A question for you.
    How many capital punishment have been Carried out in USA compared to the number carried out in Saudi Arabia in last decade?.

  5. Bravo Pamela Geller. Because Islam really does approve of murder and “jew hatred”. Sometimes I want to just slap this woman, but then she’d use it to prove that her obscene and annoyingly incorrect little ranting is ok.

  6. The publisher should not be threatened BUT the attempted indoctrination of American children into any religion in public schools must be stopped at all cost. Islam has no place in the schools or anywhere but the mosque and muslim homes and muslim countries, period.

  7. Don’t Muslim kids go to public schools. Just a few examples

    Amos Alonzo Stagg High School

    Carl Sandburg High School

    Grissom Junior High School

    Conrady Junior High School

    Glenn Oaks Elementary School

    Palos East Elementary School

    Victor J. Andrew High School

    Reavis High School

    Lockport High School

    Richards High School

    Oak Lawn High School

    Argo High School

    Palos West Junior High

    And I don’t believe that anyone is trying to convert them or make them like the religion, not necessarily. I mean, it’s a school project. If Jesus and Abraham and Saint Nick can be in school assignments, can’t one Muslim lady be in it too? I mean, we believe in Jesus and Abe too, right? it’s called learning. Children should expand their minds. Their teachers should let them explore all aspectc of life and see the different mind sets of people. Not like my teacher. i was 7 and she was telling the whole class I was responsible for 9/11. And she literally said that. Now is that the way children should be learning? Shouldn’t teachers leave bias outside the classroom?

  8. It doesn’t matter if muslim kids go to public schools, it is NOT the place for ANY religion, period.

  9. Then why is christmas allowed off? Why do they make christmas a big deal. I mean, Jesus is a big deal, he was the best, but if religion isn’t allowed, their holidays don’t have to be either, right?

  10. Anonymous,

    Islam is in the schools and is there to stay, live with it and get used to it. If you don’t want Islam in schools then all religions should be scrapped, I don’t want my kids to hear about Christmas then. However Christmas is a replayed movie every December, more commercial than religious in our days. Some christians say it is the religious time of the year, well We use to say time to explain to the kids the difference. Do the same then!!

  11. yea anon, as long as there is A muslim in America, Islam is going t be in schools. Not to influence or convert anyone, but kids will ask what ramadan is when their friend Ali isn’t eating with them at lunch. They’ll ask why Laila’s mom wears a shawl on her head. They’ll ask why Sammi goes to a mosque on friday instead of church on sunday. Shouldn’t we answer those questions? kids ask me why we celebrate Eid instead of Christmas and I tell them. It’s not wrong to know. Instead of having ignorant children wouldn’t you much rather have educated ones? (I’m not calling anyone ignorant btw, I’m just asking)

  12. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX3UHNhQ1Zk

    Something everyone should see. If you wanna understand Islam, don’t watch Glenn Beck, watch this. You’ll learn the Arab’s history, and the Muslim history. Very cool, very accurate.

  13. Elle,

    DO you know that the Mustashrekeen know Islam better than yourself and I. Well we tell them and the proof is established. That’s all what we can do!! anyway May Allah guides them to Islam.

    You are doing a good job.

  14. anonymous
    did you forget that “under god” is in our pledge of allegiance you know the ones that is recited by kids in school sounds kinda religious doesn’t it.

  15. Salim, I guess my link did not work, it was referring to an article where women brought in from other countries were being physically and sexually abused by Saudi men. Why would a woman report rape in Saudi Arabia? If no one witnessed the rape the woman has a good chance of being punished by the state. I would guess it is the very oppression of women in Saudi Arabia that prevent or obscure rape statistics.
    As to why the school should not have bought the text, your right I believe in freedom of speech but schools should at least make a stab at the truth and not teach the children falsified versions of the truth. Any story that places the treatment of women in Saudi Arabia in a good light or indicates that marriage to multiple women or girls as young as 9 years of age is ok should not be presented to children. There is no moral ambiguity in reference to the male culture of domination within this society. Their repression of women is abhorrent, and the old men flock like dogs to bitches in their efforts to marry/molest prepubescent and young teenage girls under the guise of religion.

    Salim, I have no problem with texts presenting Islam in a good light I just want the presentation to children to be honest. This text is not honest and has no place in this school.

  16. Criley,

    I agree with you that Islam should be presented in its real views. No hiding, No playing games to please people.

    Regarding women being raped in Saudi Arabia, I am not an expert on previous studies in the subject to say that it does not happen, even if it happened I do not know why women would hide it. We have DNA match test in our age.

    Your comment:” it was referring to an article where women brought in from other countries were being physically and sexually abused by Saudi men. Why would a woman report rape in Saudi Arabia? If no one witnessed the rape the woman has a good chance of being punished by the state.”

    My Answer:
    There are no verses in the quran that says Saudis are Angels, I am not defending the Saudis, I am defending Islam. If really Saudi’s did what you said they did, then surely not all Saudis act in this manner and only a number of them, (I have known plenty of saudis who do not even like looking at women since ISlam require to lower the gazes). or from the findings on the rape survey, one can then conclude that all the men from
    countries where rape is present will make all men tagged as rapist, an approach totally incorrect.

    Regarding of witnessing the rape, I guess you are basing your views in the case that a person might report a person has had sex and does not have 4 witnesses to confirm the claim, then the person who reported the incident will be lashed and his testimony will not be taking into consideration in the future. This is so that you wont get the possibility of punishing a person unjustly, or evil people using this to harm other people.

    With regards to men marrying 9 years old, If you are insinuating the Prophet Mohamed peace be upon him, then I will respond to this by presenting a response from one the Imams see link

    http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/44990/reason%20of%20prophet%20married%209%20year%20old

    See tHe answer of the imam is below:

    “Praise be to Allaah.

    The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) married ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) after he married Sawdah bint Zam’ah (may Allaah be pleased with her). She – ‘Aa’ishah – was the only virgin whom he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) married. And he consummated the marriage with her when she was nine years old.

    Among her virtues was the fact that the Revelation did not descend when he under one cover with any of his wives other than her. She was one of the dearest of all people to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and news of her innocence was revealed from above the seven heavens. She was one of the most knowledgeable of his wives, and one of the most knowledgeable women of the ummah as a whole. The senior companions of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) used to refer to her opinion and consult her.

    With regard to the story of her marriage, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) had grieved over the death of the Mother of the Believers Khadeejah, who had supported him and stood by his side, and he called the year in which she died The Year of Sorrow. Then he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) married Sawdah, who was an older woman and was not very beautiful; rather he married her to console her after her husband had died and she stayed among mushrik people. Four years later the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) married ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her), and he was over fifty. Perhaps the reasons for the marriage were as follows:

    1 – He saw a dream about marrying her. It is proven in al-Bukhaari from the hadeeth of ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to her: “You were shown to me twice in a dream. I saw that you were wrapped in a piece of silk, and it was said, ‘This is your wife.’ I uncovered her and saw that it was you. I said, ‘If this is from Allaah then it will come to pass.’” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, no. 3682). As to whether this is a prophetic vision as it appears to be, or a regular dream that may be subject to interpretation, there was a difference of opinion among the scholars, as mentioned by al-Haafiz in Fath al-Baari, 9/181.

    2 – The characteristics of intelligence and smartness that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) had noticed in ‘Aa’ishah even as a small child, so he wanted to marry her so that she would be more able than others to transmit reports of what he did and said. In fact, as stated above, she was a reference point for the Sahaabah (may Allaah be pleased with them) with regard to their affairs and rulings.

    3 – The love of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) for her father Abu Bakr (may Allaah be pleased with him), and the persecution that Abu Bakr (may Allaah be pleased with him) had suffered for the sake of the call of truth, which he bore with patience. He was the strongest of people in faith and the most sincere in certain faith, after the Prophets.

    It may be noted that among his wives were those who were young and old, the daughter of his sworn enemy, the daughter of his closest friend. One of them occupied herself with raising orphans, another distinguished herself from others by fasting and praying qiyaam a great deal… They represented all kinds of people, through whom the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was able to set out a way for the Muslims showing how to deal properly with all kinds of people. [See al-Seerah al-Nabawiyyah fi Daw’ al-Masaadir al-Asliyyah, p. 711].

    With regard to the issue of her being young and your being confused about that, you should note that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) grew up in a hot country, the Arabian Peninsula. Usually in hot countries adolescence comes early and people marry early. This is how the people of Arabia were until recently. Moreover, women vary greatly in their development and their physical readiness for marriage.

    If you think – may Allaah guide you – that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did not marry any virgin other than ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her), and that all his other wives had been previously married, this will refute the notion spread by many hostile sources, that the basic motive behind the Prophet’s marriages was physical desire and enjoyment of women, because if that was his intention he would have chosen only those who were virgins and beautiful etc.

    Such slanders against the Prophet of Mercy (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) by kaafirs and others of their ilk, are indicative of their inability to find fault with the law and religion that he brought from Allaah, so they try to find ways to criticize Islam with regard to issues that are not related to sharee’ah.

    And Allaah is the Source of strength. May Allaah send blessings and peace upon our Prophet Muhammad and his family and companions”.

    I hope this can help.

  17. Salim, I am not talking about Mohammad, I am talking about saudi men today marrying young girls. What happened hundreds of years ago does not concern me. The world was different then, the social support systems were different, peoples responsibilities were different. I addressed my concerns to marriage rights that older Saudi men claim to have over young girls and women in regards to becoming their husband and the farce of a young child consenting to such a marriage in court.

  18. Criley,

    you had mentioned 9 years old so I thought that was the case. Well I do not know any Saudi married to young girls, I don’t know if it happens since you have not provided any study for us to read from, and even if it happened, Do we know the number of cases that happened.

    Well I guess you have seen how the Vatican was covering up on some pedophile priests. We do not say all Priests are pedophiles but there are a few. so if there are a number of cases that we are not aware of, then what can we say, I personally will find it strange. (With regards to the case of our prophet, he was a prophet and there is wisdom in all his actions as all were orders).

    I have traveled to so many Islamic countries and known quite a number of people across the Islamic world, I have never heard of such thing. Honestly if I did I would tell you the truth.

    Now I am glad you care about young Saudi girls, and if one really care about children, then a young kid is a young kid, so I guess you should be standing up for all the Palestinian children living under the line of poverty, all this caused by the terrorist state Israel that does not let even humanitarian help reach them and keep terrorizing them with its military power.

  19. Salim: This quote was taken from a Saudi paper yesterday : “Outlawing the marriage of young girls to elderly men will have a negative effect on Saudi society as it will lead to mixing of the sexes which is impermissible in Islam”

    There is a lot more to the article and I admit it does say as young as 9 so it does not indicate that the majority of the marriages are with that age. Look I understand that different cultures have different customs, for many different reasons. In some African countries the average age of death is around 36 years of age. This is tragic but people cannot afford to wait till they are 20 if they are to continue their families till conditions improve. In some places the deaths of parents allow the marriage of young girls as there is no social safety net, and it allows the girls to assume an honored place while having their needs met within their community. There are many issues in regards to marriage and many reasons to marry around this world, sexual attraction is one of them but it is not necessarily the dominate reason and age does not always mean abuse.

    Saudi Arabia, however, is a modern country, it is a very rich country, and it can afford to educate and protect its children from situations they do not need to be in. A 12 year old girl may have ambitions outside of marriage but if forced into one the odds of that young lady meeting her personal goals is mostly zero. She will live her life as her husband dictates. A young girl and young man may enter the marriage as partners and set life goals together. A young girl marrying an old man, especially one with more than one wife, will enter the marriage as subservient and will be expected to meet the goals of the older man and perhaps his eldest wife. The system takes so much and gives so little:

    The light it dances in the desert sands
    bright and beautiful in the eyes of man
    by strong desire and strength of will
    the light now dances within his hand
    taken from that which makes it bright
    hidden away cloistered and guarded
    the light slowly fades and joins the night

    These young ladies have much to offer, they need to be given the chance to shine.

  20. I don’t think many Muslim women or girls are married at such a young age these days. it’s an old arab custom to marry girls young, but I’ve never heard of 9 year olds except Aisha. It was indian culture that married 11 years olds to men twice their age. ANYWAY, people are starting to see the light amlhamdulilah and realize they aren’t the prophet and they ask their women and girls to marry after schooling and college. like my family which is all arab muslim except for the 2 or 3 irish/romanian converts married to my cousins, we believe in this: graduate highschool or get married. You’d be surprised how many girls would still fail highschool even with that other dreaded option on the table. lol its actually become kind of a funny joke our parents use. My dad would say “ba jawzek hel kait” which means I’ll get you married. if I do something annoying

  21. Criley,

    Thanks for your comment, As Elle said, we have never heard ofmuslims kids getting married at that age, but again if it is in a Saudi paper then it must be happening, and I guess this should be looked into by their authorities as I can not comment on it since I do not the two sides of the coin.

    Now as I mentioned before, People such as yourself who show to care about children, then the childrenof Palestine should have the same care. Don’t you think so?
    Do you know that the Israeli occupation is costing the palestinians more than 7 billions dollars a year.

    http://english.pnn.ps/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=10720

    In my view this is more important to stop the killing of palestinian chidren by this venomous state and the atrocities of its military forces rather than worry about the case of some old messed up Saudi guy who got married to a 9 year old, however the western world is not spared of negative sides either

    From a quick search on wikkipedia, the average % of teenagers under 14 in the western world having had sex is 5.7%
    If the number of population in USA is 31 million then 5.7% of 31 millions is 1767000. AN ALARMING NUMBER if you agree with me and I feel so sorry for those kids being caught in this type of culture. I hope the west will do something about it.

  22. ok so if i am asked to do a speech and i tell people how i am happy to wear the veil (not the face one but the hair one) and i love how my husband has the right to see me and no others that are not my brother blood uncle fathe ror grandfather are allowed to see me this would be wrong. did you know there are cultures that make their women go withou tclothing (yes even ones brought up in societies that wear clothing) and force them to get circumcised or risk bein gmurdered (none o fthem are muslim so that throws the “only muslims do it” argument out of the window) and some of them are in the old tradition that a 12-13 year old girl can be wrapped in a sheet after being bound and gagged then spirited off to a mans house to b ehi s”wife” even if she protests? so non muslims are rapeing children and some of the girls are being forced to have children at 12-13 years of age only to be ruined by a tear to the bladder or rectum or both because they cant afford to get it fixed. they are then put in a house for “dirty” women and never talked to again while thei r”husbands” go and marry another young girl! remember while one points one finge rat others three are pointing back at them. saudia isnt a representative of th etrue islam in true islam the girl gets her choice of men that are picked by her family. these men are usually around he rage and are able to handle her personality and support her. its like a match makeing service and she can say no to them all AND present her choice to be interviewed and have a background check done on him. where as there are christian sects that force girls of 12-13 years of age to marry and they do not get a choice. see how i can turn it around to tell the truth that there are people of all backgrounds that do the things yall try to pin on islam?
    Its a friggin letter of a happy woman from saudia and people want to get all het up about it. what if it was from a tribal woman in africa where some tribes still force feed their women to make them fat then parade them hal fnaked in fron tof the village so shell get a husband? what if she said she was happy to be the tenth wife of some man she neve rmet after being fed so much food it hurts to move? hmm you dprolly just defend it as a cultural practice!

  23. “Now I am glad you care about young Saudi girls, and if one really care about children, then a young kid is a young kid, so I guess you should be standing up for all the Palestinian children living under the line of poverty, all this caused by the terrorist state Israel that does not let even humanitarian help reach them and keep terrorizing them with its military power.”

    LOL @Salim… That’s the whole problem with this anti-Islam/anti-Muslims bigoted movement. The bigots dont seem to care to discuss, tackle, or help the sickness of their own societies. Like the hight rate – of murder, rape, incest, pedophilia, sexual harrasment, ‘honor killing'(which they call “crime of passion”- lol, which is a total double standard), sexual exploitations, that their women, and young girls alike are suffering of.
    And yet they’re fixated with an utterly comical obsession, on every little thing that happens accross the globe in other societies, and the main object of this unhealthy obsession, is Muslim societies first lol.

    The anti-Islam/anti-Muslims bigots behaviours and Views, (if you pay a little close attention), kind of translates as follows….Yes!Yes! We know! We know! We Do have lots of problems and sickness in our societies, But!But-But!! Look at those evil mooozlem over there. Now that’s what i call, the perfect case of the kettle calling the pot black.

  24. Sahra, you’re so cynical. The entire situation in the Palestinian areas is so sad. Yesterday Abbas Zaki a senior member of the Fatah Central Stated that “If Israel withdraws from Jerusalem, evacuates the 650,000 settlers, and dismantles the wall, what will become of Israel? It will come to an end,”

    Now I do feel sorry for the people of Palestine but I also believe Israel has a right to exist and they cannot give up lands to the extent that their state is not viable. Zaki stated that the withdrawal to the 1967 boarders is just the first step in dealing with Israel. Until attitudes such as this are eliminated there will be no progress. I do not see it happening any time soon. As a result people on both sides will suffer and the hate/desire for revenge will simply grow and continue to cycle.

  25. criley

    it can exist somewhere else. Don’t you realize that they torched, evactuated, and demolished over 500 villages in 1948? Some villages at least 1000 years old? Do you know how many people died? For the sake of a Jewish state? nah, they knew,, the ziionists were bout to pick fiji to build it but they realized Palestine was full of those dreaded arabs who actuallylet the Jews in after the Romans expelled them 500 years earlier. This isn’t for the sake of a Jewish state because they can have it anywhere and they know it. And they act like they are losing, like the whole world hates them. If they are losing, then how come more than 700,000 Palestinians were either killed or forced out of their homeland? Why are there so many refugees? Why is it that children, CHILDREN of both Muslim and Christian faith, have to suffer? Why? Why is the U.S., one of the most supreme and most powerful countries ever on their side, kissing it’s bloody hands like it’s Jesus or something. Why is it that our tax dollars go to Israel’s weapons? Because these bigots tell the world that they NNEEEDD this land! It was theirs! if it was, why did the Canaanites exist? Why? Why did the Muslims alow Jews back in? Talk about biting the hands that feed you. Israel could do well on it’s own anywhere, it’s the Palestinians’ lives that are suffering, not Israel and you know it.

    That’s it, they’ve reeled you in. I hope inshallah all these murderous and filthy and disgusting supporters of the occupation are humiliated by God on the Day of Judgement and sent to rot in Hell. No race deserves to be under genocide, whether it be the Native AMericas, the Rwandans, the Palestinians and it’s not fair that for years people haven’t been shown the truth. Years after the 4-5 years of the Holocaust, people were jailed and killed and codemned for persecuting Jews. What about everyone else? What, are we gonna get a hand shake for our losses? Not even. Makes me sick, absolutely disgusted. My family’s been there for centuries, just because we started out pagans doesn’t mean we don’t have a right to our Land. Yil3an abo la David G. wo Ariel Sharon, allah yikhzeehom Bibi Netanyahu wa Ehud Olmert, khaleehum ya ruhu a jahannam inshallah. Itfo ala al sahyuneen.

  26. Sahra,
    I know that is the problem. I myself pray that MAy Allah guide Criley to Islam.

    Criley
    Regarding your comment, Now Muslims, Christians Jews all have something to do with Jerusalem. the only people who want monopoly of the whole place for themselves are the jews.

    We Muslims pray to MEcca, Now we go to do pilgrimage and visits, Do we go there and says to the Saudis this is our land? no it does not make sense.

    Please read the quran. MAy Allah guide you

  27. And oh yeah, I guess you aren’t going to do research for palestine or the history of Israel, I’ll do it for you.

    Back during the times of the Mid to Late-Ottoman Empire, Napolean wanted to get into Canaan (modern day Palestine) but the Muslim leaders had built a large wall around so he couldn’t get through. (the Ottomans may have been corrupt, but they weren’t totally stupid.) So Napolean went lookign for a way to infiltrate so he could conquer Canaan at last. He found out about some jewish settlements in that area and called for a meeting between Jewish leaders in Europe and himself. He askd them to send more people there, so it would open up, that way he could tear the ottomans down. A man named Theodore Herzl was among those men. He encouraged the movement of Jews towards that area. The Muslims didn’t really mind the the Jews, after all, they’d lived together in Andalus for countless centuries. But then in the early 1900′s the Ottomans fell and Britian took over. The jewish residents grew and to the palestinians it was a little alarming because there was increasing violence and riots between the arab, the Jews, and the British.

    Suddenly, massacres and bloody shootings became a norm in Palestine. More Jews piled in, after all, Europe wasn’t treating them very well, and even the British were a little confused. Some Palestinians, i’m not gonna lie, were a little uncomfortable with it, like they could sense impending doom or something. which is kinda what happened, but I’ll get to that in a bit. Jewish radical groups, known now as Zionists, were fighting th e Arabs and British because Herzl had mentioned the idea of a free state. Of course, Zionists back in Europe were still speculating on where to build this ew Jewish nation. They thought of Fiji, New Zealand, but then they realized, Palestine contianed a lot more history for them. So they planned their move. Then out of nowhere, in the 40′s, Hitler decided to make life a pain in the ass and imprison Jews and other minorities, as many as he could perhaps. More and more Jews fled to Palestine, hoping to be safe from the Nazis, and after WW2 ended, the Holocast came out, and Zionists used it to get sympathy from the UN, UK and the US. (Now I agree genocide is a sick sick thing and no one should have to go through, Jews or anyone else) and after that, they revealed their plan to the world, “Since no one else wants us we shll create our own free stae, a land with no people for a people with no land” See there was a problem with this.

    There were ALREADY people there. The Palestinains. And if you think we have no history there, read the Quran, read the old testament, look through my grandfather’s journal and photos (he was born during the last years of the Ottoman empire…old huh.) Anyway, the very first people in Palestine were called te Balistiniyyun, aka the Palestinians. Maybe they weren’t Muslims but they were still the Arab and the only people thre When Moses (gonna be religios for a sec) came with his followers, they passed through Canaan where there were people indeed, but they went through the desert, where there were much less there. But I know for a fact they didn’t wander the desert for 40 years, no one survives that long in a desert, especially if they are nomads. by the time the got out, 2/3 of them were gone. And just a note: Moses said himself that the Jews were to have their own Holy Land one day? Do you know what he was talking about? HEAVEN, not a Palestine. Heaven is the holiest place you can ever imagine, and Moses said if the Jews followed his example and the Torah and believeed in the last Messenger (Mohammad) they would go to the Holy Land. But over time, Judiasm became corrupt, and when Jesus was born, it was God’s way of telling the Jews to follow the light. Some did, like Mary of course, Zakariyah and other faithful servants of God.

    OK, back to what I was saying earlier. Finally the Zionists said they needed to arrange a gov, a leader, and who did they choose? David Gumbion or some sh**, possibly the most inhumane man I’ve ever heard of, next to Ariel Sharon. See Jews were outraged by the Holocausts and the Nazis and thats why they followed the idea of their own state. But the Arabs didn’t know what was going on. People were getting killed, more and more land was being eaten up by Zionists, UNDER Sharon’s rule. Their houses were being torn down by rebels and other radicals. Then that fateful day arrived. The UK was scared and sick of the violence in Paletine and wanted ‘out’, so they signed the Belfour Decleration which proved that the land of Palestine was now under Zionists control. Things became even MORE violnt, and villages were being attacked, raided and torn apart by Zionists. Palestinains were so terrified and scared they locked their doors (and took their house keys WITH them, thinking they could come back when the violence dided out) and with the annoying shoving of the soldiers, they fled, hoping soon they could come back. But they were never allowd their right of return.

    Village after village was cleared out, and no matter how many people it took to slaughter, it didn’t matter to Sharon or his soldiers. Ever heard of Deir Yassin? one of the OLDEST most historical villages of Palestine was obliterated and hundreds of Arabs were killed, Muslim and Christain. (yes, there are MANY Arab christians) and whoever was lucky got pushed out quickly into a refugee camp and never had the chance to come back. The regular jewish folk were blissfully unaware of the fact that innocent people were being murdered in their name. (ALthough I’m curious as to what their reaction to Ariel Sharon’s famous saying of the Arab “The old will die and the young will forget” what did they think he was talking about, the revelation that Santa Claus wasn’t real? Sigh) and on May 15, 1948 Israel was ‘born”.

    Just the other day, I saw a newspaper that said “May 15, Jews all over the globe celebrate as Palestinains mourn the creation of Israel.” EXCUSE ME? Hello??? We are mourning the loss of OUR home, OUR land! We could care less if the jews had their own homeland, but why exactly did they need to push out so many palestinains and kill us to get it??? Honestly, people in this COUNTRY don’t even get it. Some Jewish people here dont even know what people theyre being taught to hate. Some lady a jewish woman, said “These Pakistanis need to calm down, this is our area, our land, God gave it to US.” So i sit there saying, “Pakistan is next to India. It’s in southeast Asia. Palestine is between Jordan and the dead freaking sea. You don’t even know what “God decreed to you” supposedly and yet you stand here in front of me saying to “get out” and “calm down” huh.

    I pity it. Realy, because I know the jws are mad abut the Holocaust, but we’re mad about our own Holocaust, which is still going on. 63 miserable year sin counting. So many Jews don’t even realize that Palestinians are being targeted day by day by Israeli rockets. American Jewish kids who visit Israel are told to STAY in the city they are visiting. They aren’t ALLoWED to see the outside, because if they did….haha, oh they’d have a diffrerent outlook on EVERYTHING. And don’t think that what Netanyahu said is right (you know most Israelis and Jews don’t even know who he is)that kal, every Arab perosn in Israeli has a good life. Good life my butt. If you come to an Israeli soldier and show him your American Passport he would laugh at you, cause apparently the US is Israel’s bitch.

    I go to Palestine to visit my ailing family almost every summer, and everytime its the ame thing. Israeli gaurds, man, will try to rip off my scarf and tug at my hair to see if its real. They stop us at 3 checkpoints between every city, and rummage and steal valuables from our bags and claim them “dangrous” when really its a can of olives or thyme. They push you around and ignore you, sometimes you talk to them and they listen, which shows there is some truth to it.

    I hate that Israelis took over my land, but I love that there are some Jews and Israelis who disagree with the occupation, who fight against it. So i dont hate all Jews, if you think that. i just rellly dislike zionists and killers, thats all. And don;t call me an anti-semetic, because Arabs are semites too. =P

  28. and don’t say the Arab don’t cooperate. That idiot Mahmoud Abbas tried signing over all of Palestine to Israel (known as the Palestinain Papers) as long as he could have some kind of position in the gov but what did Israel say? No. Not because they “feared” for the arabs, hellllll no. They wanted to drive them out slowly, to butcher their identity and make a mockery of them. And that’s what they’ve been doing.

  29. “Sahra, you’re so cynical. The entire situation in the Palestinian areas is so sad. Yesterday Abbas Zaki a senior member of the Fatah Central Stated that “If Israel withdraws from Jerusalem, evacuates the 650,000 settlers, and dismantles the wall, what will become of Israel? It will come to an end,””

    You Know What Boooby??? Take and Go feed this Nonsence to the intellectually challenged christian zionists, who are sooo allergic to the truth and justice( mainly for others, including their fellow Black and Latino Christians) Note! I’m not speaking of all Christians here, but the zionist ones who % sure hates me anyway solely for my religion.
    And Please! Specially, Yes i said Specially dont think for a second, yes NOT ONE, that the posters of this site (other than fanatic zionist Islamophobes) will ever, never believe the bogus “statement” you’ve quoted.

    And IF you seriously in your right mind believe that the 60 years+…..on counting….Defenseless and Defenceless, Dispossessed, Derooted, Disadvantanged, Deprived, Destroyed, Dispersed, Disarmed, Agressively Displaced, sieged, Starved, Murdered, Terrorized, Segregated, Oppressed, 3/4 Ethnically Cleansed ect-ect….. and the list of Suffering can Go On and On — Therefore IF you believe for One second that ZERO army, No system of defence whatsoever(Not even ONE plane) Palestinians are even a tiny-tiny bit closely or remotely even by faaaaaaar an Equal match, To The NUCLEAR ARMED 200+ TO 400 HEADS OR MORE(Thanks to zionists from US/EU), and which is in the TOP 5 mighty military machine in the world, THATS the “jewish state” Capability ( which have more arms than the whole Middle-Eastern countries combined) – SO after All that Power and Force, IF you think that Somehow, after 60+years of brutally terroristic occupations, Will Somehow magically[ with their breath or their fart many?? since the dont have any other means], the defenseless Palestinians will somehow Miraculously bring the powerful “Jewish State” “to an end”?, THEN please for lack of better Word and Expression, MAY I :
    LOOLOOLOOLOOLOOLOOLOOLOOLOOLOOLOOLOOLOOLOOLOOLOOLOOLOOLOOLOOLOOLOOLOOLOOL
    BECAUSE YOU SIR MUST BE OUT OF YOUR DAMN MIND!!!!!!!

    “Now I do feel sorry for the people of Palestine”

    DO YOU?? REALLY??? From your Post it doesnt seem that you “feel” anything, let alone “sorry” for the people of Palestine, rather it seem like your siding with their oppressors and terrorizers.

    “but I also believe Israel has a right to exist and they cannot give up lands to the extent that their state is not viable”

    “Isreal right to exist”!!!!- “isreal has the right to exist” !!!! – “isreal has the right to exist”!!!!…..sigh! you have no idea how many time we’ve heard this propagandist, shallow, empty, tiring, annoying, baseless phrase. But Seems to me though, you’ve been learning your zionist lessons(main study propaganda) pretty well!!

    “Right to exist”?? Even by terrorizing, dispossessing, oppressing, starving, ethnically cleansing, kicking the land out of its 1000’s upon 1000’s years defenseless rightfull owner semitic inhabitants??.

    Oh-Ya! Right sorry i’ve forgot!! They got their “legitimacy” in taking by force the lands of others from the Bible isnt?? . So then tell me, if as you said you’re Christian, and since Jesus [the only begotten son of god, according to christianity, and even god in person according to some Christian sects] – was himself “jewish”, and even more so than a simple jew, since he was the son of god, and since he still is the spiritual leader of Christians, then i would safely say that you, and all Christians have also Biblical rights as, or even more so than jews, to historical Palestine. Of course safe to say NOT for the dirty, unwanted Palestinians moooozlems, who actually contrary to what some blinded ignorants of history seem to laughably claim, are over 95+% chance that they( unwanted mooozlem Palestinians ) are the direct descendants of ancient tribes of the so-called “holy” land, and Not the Zionists converts.

    BTW..When will Native Palestinians be allowed the ‘RIGHT TO EXIST’..

  30. Sahra, I admit I got this from an Israelie online paper. Here is the link that includes a video link of the interview with the Fatah official.

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/148406

    I do not make things up and I realize were on different sides of the issue here but name calling and accusing people of not caring does not help. Just look at the link and watch the interview, the man speaks in arabic but I am sure several here can understan what he says beyond the translation.

  31. we’re not saying fatah and hammas are so great, theyre part of the problem too, and btw israel bs’s half of the sh*t they put in their news. They tell their students about the wonderful Theodor Herzl and how he thought of Israel and w.e and of course they don’t tell you he planned to murder thousands of “gentiles” to get it.

    They claim the death of many Israeli children because of the occupation, (i’m not saying the SHOULD die, god no, no kid should be in the middle of war) but really the accurate number is far less. The opposite for Palestinian children.

    Live with Gazans for at least a month and see for just a second if you can take it. Think, no food and water, no electricity, no shelter or safety. Constantly under the fire of Israeli missiles. Maybe bring a close relative. Either way, you wouldn’t make it. This is an injustice to a people who initially didn’t have anything to do with it, they weren’t responsible for anything and yet here they are suffering genocide and infanticide because of sick twisted zionists and their idiotic buddies in the Middle Eastern and American gov.

  32. “Sahra, I admit I got this from an Israelie online paper. Here is the link that includes a video link of the interview with the Fatah official.”

    For sure, and i’m not surprised (and its honest of you to admit it) that you got that bogus “statement” from an highly anti-Arabs and Islamophobic “news’ network, that tirelessly work in propagading the religous zionism ideology it identifies with.

    And MEMRI “translations”??? LOOOL!!! Well we all know how “ACCURATE” those are.
    No wonder bro! you’re misinformed, if you’re getting informed by highly biased, totally one sided, unaccurate networks such Arutz Sheva and MEMRI TV masquerading as “news”.

    BY THE WAY!!!! MEMRI‎ was founded in 1998 by the former Israeli intelligence officer Yigal Carmon, and Meyrav Wurmser, Both of them hardcore zionist idealogues from the Likud party.

    1 – MEMRI functions as a PR campaign for Likud Party goals.

    2 – MEMRI is a main arm of Israeli propaganda. Although widely used in the global mainstream media as a source of information on the Arab world, and it is as trustworthy as Julius Streicher’s Der Sturmer was on the Jewish world

    3 – MEMRI is a corporate sponsored media propaganda aimed with the usual vitriolic endeavors of maligning Islam and Muslims (ESPECIALLY Palestinians) and to seek the perpetual state sponsored terrorism that the “Jewish state” continues to perform in violation of international law.

    Criley!! CAN YOU CHANGE THE CHANEL PLEASE, SINCE YOU HAVE THE REMOTE???? THANKS.

    2 – MEMRI is selective and biased against the Arab press, and that it highlights pieces that cast Arabs, especially committed Muslims, in a negative light.

  33. oops! somehow i’ve forgot to switch the 2 last lines. But still, Criley switch the extremly biased channels that you’re getting your INFOS from.

  34. wow, what a great comment board. but my ADD is kicking in so i’m not going to touch the palestinian tangent. i’ll just ask again why the muslim didn’t take the UN deal? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine

    elle,

    if you go to a public school that displays religious christmas matterial you should call the aclu. or if they are assignings you things about jesus and abraham. yes there are people of all faiths in schools but that doesn’t mean you official study or promote them in school. yes someone can ask you about your religion at lunch, but that is totally different then a teacher assigning you religious subject matter. the reason christmas is a holiday is because we haven’t always been as strick will our seperation of church and state. and as salim has so deaftly pointed out it is now more commecial than religious, so it would be detremental to the economy to change it now.

    corey,

    “did you forget that “under god” is in our pledge of allegiance you know the ones that is recited by kids in school sounds kinda religious doesn’t it.” yes both of those were added in the 50’s to “fight the godless communists”. it was a mistake and they should be removed. also, you can choose not to say the pledge.

  35. helema,

    fgm does have some roots in islam.

    “This is why some scholars say: “Circumcision is obligatory for men and a sign of respect in the case of women”. A hadith with similar wording is quoted, attributed to Usama al-Huthali, who directly quotes the Prophet, Peace Be Upon Him, as saying: “Circumcision is a sunna for men and a sign of respect for women”.”

    “http://www.emro.who.int/Publications/HealthEdReligion/CircumcisionEn/Chapter1FemaleCircumcision.htm”

    see the problem here is that may sunnah aren’t very clear or their transmission not very reliable. so those you like the concepts in some can use them as cover for their actions. also the precident set by muhammad marrying a 9 year old was a poor one. if god was laying down law for all mandkind and all time he should of not been so short sighted, right salim, don’t be short sighted.

    i’ve posted the link elsewhere so i’ll just say you can google saudi grand mufti says it’s ok to marry 10 year olds. yes i’ve heard of Obstetric Fistula and it’s consequenses in africa. sometimes they don’t even get a “dirty house”, they take them out in the bush and abandon them. and it’s likelihood increase the younger the mother. so do you think they knew how to cure it in the time of the prophet?

    but that was excellent deflection. you should of brought up the 9 year gypsy who gave birth in spain. sorry roma. how about the fact there is a reality show on american tv, pregnant at 16? or the glouster pact girls.

    “just defend it as a cultural practice!” no, all cultural practices should be open to criticism. as should all books.

  36. wow, this m2 guy is brilliant.

  37. the grand mufti is an *******. He’s like a combination of Osama Bin Laden and Abu Lahab. Both idiots, both condemned to Hell. Like Isaid, *******

  38. Saying the pledge is cool I don’t personally care, I mean it IS America, it’s just that for once Islam is being seen in a positive light and everyone attacks it. I bet you if the book were talking about how “badly Muslims treated their women” and how they were “so evil” everyone would be all for it.

    By the way, m2, not all palestinians are Muslim, lots of them are of Christian and even Zoroastrian faith. And we kinda did, several times, but each time we were denied our own land back. So…

  39. elle,

    what if they had a “letter” from a somali girl descriping how happy she was after her circumcision? i don’t mind them presenting facts about dress codes throught the world. it is important to understand that there are many cultures/customs in the world. americans are ignorant of most of the world outside our borders, we always have been. hell some americans are ignorant of the culture across the state border. but here’s “the thing”, culture is a powerful thing. don’t they talk about “peer presure” in school. imagine everyone in your country presuring you into a certain behavior? the question is what kind of culture are we trying to build in america. i always thought we were a culture of personal freedom and thought. islam seem intolerant of individual thought and many actions which are acceptable in western cultures. glad to hear you disagree with muhammad on killing apostates, but don’t let your teachers hear you say that.

    Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:

    Narrated ‘Ikrima:

    Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to ‘Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn ‘Abbas who said, “If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah’s Apostle forbade it, saying, ‘Do not punish anybody with Allah’s punishment (fire).’ I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah’s Apostle, ‘Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'”

    the letter would be funny if it wasn’t so sad. i don’t see the “positive slant” at all. i feel for this woman having been SO indoctrinated as to be “happy” with her situation. to each his/her own i guess. i doubt many western woman would find her situation appealling, how old are these students. scroll down past the nuke islam part. sorry only place i could find it.

    http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2011/09/29/georgia-publisher-of-pro-islamic-text-book-claims-to-be-getting-many-online-threats/

  40. btw elle, not all the world is people of the book. many people, over 40%are kufir/kafir/kaafir????? lower than animals. somebody should tell the chinese. well not the chinese muslims or christians, their alright, but the rest of them be damned. holy war, god commands it.

    http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

    intersting number 3 on the list.

  41. Mike

    1. Muhammad spoke of the apostates that posed as A REAL threat. Like knock on your door and kill you kinda threat.

    2. That was wrong. Now, just killing for no reason? C’mon.

    3. the circumsision doesn’t have to be done for a lady. You wanna do it? Cool, but you gotta do it right. And it’s a culture in Africa, some parts. And just like in a lot of othewr places, the girl was convinced by pressure put on by family and probably friends who had it done and walked aroud proudly. Then you pull out one hadith and then it’s “the best thing ever”. It’s like a kid who straps a bomb to his chest and says Allah’s apostle told him to because his loony sheikh encouraged fighting for God and they pull out one Ayah that if you die for God you’ll go to heaven. They don’t tell you that you can’t have the intention of dying because it’s not even sincere, and it’s like suicide.

    4. Yeah, God hates atheists and polytheists. He kinda sent 25+ prophets down to prove his point, and he showed his signs through a nursing child, a bird flying, etc. I’m not saying let’s kill ‘em, they are god’s, and will return to Him eventually and he shall deal with them. Now look at the Pagans of Arabia. They waged war against the early Muslims and God let them win to show his power and signs. And STILL, the pagans believed as the did. Some realized their errors and went to Islam. Abu Sufyan I believe, and Khalid Ibn Al Waleed. And remember that story about the atheist feeding the dog and he went to heaven for it? Sometimes it depends. But you can’t go atheist and then do one good deed in the eyes of God and say, Ok send me to paradise. God’s mercy doesn’t work that way.

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