Wednesday, December 7, 2016   

  Home     About     Guest Editorials     Advertise     Blog     Site Map     Links     Contact      Subscribe RSS      Subscribe Email  
Home » Loonwatch.com

Fox News GOP Primary Debate: “1400% Increase in Murder Rate of Women in Turkey” Due to “Islamist Oriented” Government

20 January 2012 Loonwatch.com 58 Comments Email This Post Email This Post

Fox News GOP Primary Debate: “1400% Increase in Murder Rate of Women in Turkey” Due to “Islamist Oriented” Government

It is an understatement to say that violence against women is a serious issue today, as I wrote in a previous article titled, Rampant Sexual Harassment of Women…in the West“women are mistreated across the globe, across cultures, races, and religions at unfortunately high and gross levels.” This was proven with empirical evidence and scholarly analysis from various studies.

In the intro of the article I reminded readers that Islamphobes,

love to trot out the talking point that Muslims (due to Islam of course) are unique in harassing and oppressing women. According to them, anytime a Muslim man harasses or otherwise assaults a woman it is considered a result of Islam or somehow encouraged by “Islamic behavior.”

This belief, however, is not limited to anti-Muslim bigots but has also crept into the popular imagination and perception of the mainstream.

It is within that context that we review another recent manifestation of this “anti-Muslim talking point” creeping into the mainstream. As many of those who watched the recent South Carolina GOP Presidential Primary debate are aware, Fox News’s Brett Baier asked Gov. Rick Perry about Turkey’s “Islamist oriented” government, and what our relationship should be towards them (Turkey is one of our oldest allies). He set up the question this way,

“Since the Islamist oriented party took over in Turkey the murder rate of women has increased 1400% there…”

My jaw dropped when I heard that, what an astronomical and frankly unbelievable number! The clear implication was that the “increase in violence” was related to the rule of the so-called “Islamist oriented” AKP party. Once again something “Islam” or “Islam” related was being cast as the source and cause of violence.

Imagine the effect this had on those watching the debate? It either reinforced or created the perception that Islam and Muslims are incredibly violent towards women, and that any “Islam” oriented political party will result in a degradation of women’s rights.

Brett Baier’s question was extremely misleading to say the least. It provided no context or evidence linking the AKP party to the “increase” in murders. To say that the AKP is “Islamist oriented” is misleading as well, a more appropriate analogy may have been to the “Christian Democratic” parties in Europe.

I have found conflicting origins on the source of the “1400% increase” statistic. On some news outlets we learn that the figures were released by Women’s Rights lawyer Aydeniz Alisbah Tuskan,

The figures are based on data issued by lawyer Aydeniz Alisbah Tuskan, Co-ordinator of the Istanbul Bar Association Centre for Women’s Rights.

while others claim it was the Ministry of Justice,

According to the data of the Ministry of Justice, the number of women murders increased by factor 14 between 2002 and 2009. While 66 women were killed in 2002, this figure raised to 953 women murders in 2009. The development of the increase was documented as follows: 83 women murders in 2003; 128 in 2004; this figure more than doubled in 2005 with 317 women killings; again a sharp increase with 663 in 2006; a peak of 1011 women murders in 2007 and a small decrease in numbers in 2008 with 806 women murders.

Regardless of the source there seems to be agreement on the numbers. Tuskan in her report also added another startling fact regarding violence towards women,

The data revealed an additional startling dimension of the problem: 85 percent of about 2000 annually registered divorce applications in Istanbul are based on violence.

According to Tuskan the reason for this explosion in the number of divorce applications stemming from violence is, “based on the fact that women do not endure violence as they used to do in the past.”

This however does not address the increase in the number of murders. As Elif Shafak asks in her Guardian article, Turkey Opens it’s Eyes to Domestic Violence,

Are violent incidents against women on the rise in Turkey? Or is it just that we are finally getting a clearer picture of something that has been happening at the heart of Turkish society for some time?

If one were to listen to Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, it has been his government that has started compiling these statistics, whereas before his administration statistics on the issue were not even “calculated,”

While numerous sources argued over the last week that violence against women increased by 1,400 percent in the past seven years, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan said earlier this week that the issue was presented as if violence against women was on the rise. Highlighting that they would not ignore a single act of violence, Erdoğan said: “Before we started keeping track of this, statistics on the issue were not even calculated and no one was aware of these incidents. … I expect a responsible approach from both the opposition and the media over the matter and I say that, with solidarity and responsibility, we can decrease violence to the lowest level.”

I don’t see any reason to doubt Erdoğan’s assertion, however it would be vital to verify.

Either way, the statement from Erdoğan clearly contradicts Brett Baier’s misleading assertion that the so-called “Islamist-oriented” AKP which Erdoğan heads is the cause or root of the violence.

Erdoğan also went on to say,

“Violence against women is remorselessness, ruthlessness and, I say this without hesitation, contemptible”

Not really the evil, misogynist Islamic terrorist that Baier and Rick Perry thought ruled Turkey, aye?

Since the stats came out on the number of murders and incidences of violence directed against women there has been an intense debate on the subject in Turkey. It is no longer a taboo subject locked behind closed doors. There have also been massive grassroots campaigns and new legislation countering the violent trend,

In recent months, both print and visual media in Turkey have been running story after story about domestic violence: ex-husbands who shoot their ex-wives in front of their children, abusive husbands who come back to kill, boyfriends or fiancés who cannot forgive being dumped and seek revenge.

As disheartening as the situation is, there is also a growing reaction and a grassroots movement to stop it. Nowadays it is widely acknowledged that violence against women is not only confined to a few uneducated families in remote undeveloped regions. More importantly, until today, it was mainly assumed that such cases were a “family affair”. If a husband was beating his wife, this was their problem. Now this assumption is fully debunked. More and more public figures are coming out to say that domestic violence is everyone’s business and we should, as a society, interfere.

Family and social policies minister Fatma Sahin has announced that abusive husbands will be kept away from their homes with the help of electronic handcuffs. A group of men in the eastern province of Van have organised a significant march to protest at male violence. The group’s speaker proclaimed: “We are ashamed of men who attack women and do so in the name of manhood.”

University students are marching on the streets, women’s organisations are collecting signatures. Through blogs, websites, magazines, fanzines, panels and conferences activists are raising their voices, singers give concerts to honour women who have been victims of killings, writers and poets condemn the violence openly and contest it with their words. And yet, all this is not enough. Unless we change the way we raise our sons and discard our belief that they are superior to our daughters, unless we mothers stop treating our sons as the sultans in the house, nothing will be enough.

Lastly, it should be highlighted that Brett Baier’s misleading question is damaging most of allbecause it obfuscates the true issue of violence directed at women. It deflects from the root causes (cultural norms, cultural traditions, patriarchy) in exchange for the easy Orientalist scapegoat–Islam.

As Ilisha pointed out in her article on Honor Killing, by focusing on Islam, anti-Muslim Islamophobes are actually doing a disservice to those who are truly challenging violence towards women. Brett Baier’s question had the added effect of dehumanizing a whole nation, and I echo Ilisha’s call that Islamophobes, “give up their vicious campaign against Islam and join us in the struggle to end violence against women from all cultural and religious backgrounds.”

UPDATE I:

For further information on this topic I suggest reading The Journal of Turkish Weekly, which conducted an exclusive interview with Dilek Karal, a specialist at USAK Center for Social Studies regarding violence against women. According to Karal, there is no way to solidly identify whether murders against women have increased or decreased,

How should we read violence against women in Turkey? How accurate is it to say that violence has drastically increased in recent years?

D. Karal: There are a lot of factors which can trigger violence such as sociocultural factors, economic factors, and psychological factors in the environment where people grow up. We need to look at what conditions they become prominent under. The efforts shall target eliminating the roots of these factors. However this is not limited to the motto which is liberally used in Turkey—“education is a must”. Educated people also beat their spouses or commit different kinds of violence against them. Education is just one dimension. The issue should be tackled with integrated multi-agency policies. It is compulsory to operate family and child services efficiently, and formalize different environments where boys and girls grow up to not normalize the violence. All in all, violence as a phenomenon needs to leave our lives altogether.

For instance, Turkish Ministry of Justice 2010 data shows violence against women has increased 1400% during the last seven years. This is a very big number. According to some other data during the first seven months of 2010; 226 women were murdered while 478 women were raped and 722 women sexually abused. There are a lot of similar cases. Over 100,000 women suffered from sexual attacks. Although the numbers are as such, they cannot present us solid data regarding whether the violence has increased or decreased. This is because there are certain problems in evaluating statistical data in Turkey. The fact that they are being presented in a systematic fashion in recent years can be interpreted as the invisible tip of the iceberg slowly surfacing.

In other words, violence against women existed before as well but can now be better measured with in-depth research, which has made the issue more apparent. Without longitudinal studies it is very difficult to understand if the violence has increased or not. However, we need to underline that the existing circumstances in the context of this issue are already too tragic. According to Hacettepe University’s research, 39% of the women in this country (more than a third) are victims of physical violence and 15% are victims of sexual violence. 42% of women say that they have experienced a form of one or the other. The interesting part is the women who experienced violence did not make appeals to official units or to non-governmental organizations. More than half of them shared the situation with just close relatives. Only 8% of the women requested help from official units. This rate is very low. In a society where violence is skyrocketing, this low rate points to ignorance. Women either do not see themselves sufficient socioeconomically or they normalize violence in a sociocultural sense.

UPDATE II:
I also came across figures on murders of women since 2009 in the article, “This is a Civil War…”There is a large discrepancy between 2009 (1,126 murders) and 2010 (217 murders). If one were to be disingenuous regarding the issue, one could claim a massive decrease in murders!:

Here is the number of women murdered by year:

2002 – 66

2003 – 83

2004 – 164

2005 – 317

2006 – 663

2007 – 1,011

2008 – 806

2009 – 1,126

2010 – 217

Share/Bookmark




58 Comments »

  1. It is true that when statistics begin to be compiled in earnest all sorts of things come to light. In countries without statistics, the inhabitants can swan around in blissful ignorance unless it touches them directly.

    TV recently showed the old movie America, America, about a young Armenian man getting out from under the oppressive murderous Turks.

    The subject classes should be treated kindly, says the Turkish official sweetly. Yeah but they aren’t ha ha.

    US old south: The nigra should be treated kindly. Not their fault that they are deficient.

  2. im turkish nd i ive in america, nd i know turkish men r frikin pigs, this why im being loner forever, turkish men need to know there frikin place , were all frikin equal nd they think slapping nd yelling is gonna do shit , its not , its gonna end those turkish men in hell cuz of it, im a turkish boy nd we are all equal, my case is closed

  3. Anon
    That is THE most racist thing Ive ever heard.

  4. Fox news is mainly full of piss and vinegar.

    Every culture, religion has their share of maniacs.

    I’m am so for equality…i’m tired of certain groups of people oppressing the rest of us…jus saying. :)

  5. I don’t agree with this zionist fox news media! What about USA? every 3 second a women is killed by her husband or boyfriend!

  6. Turkey is a democratic secular nation governed by a constitution that guarantees freedom of religion…sound familiar??? Where does FOXNews get their info…comic books???

  7. Islam is love and mercy, i am a Muslim woman, i chose to wear hijab, my family were against my decision, but i pray ALLAH and they accepted my choice! stop zionist propaganda please!

  8. Murad when you insult Turkish men, you insult yourself!

  9. I think a look at the statistics of domestic violence everywhere will show that this is universal .. no labels are needed.

  10. Definitely a world wide issue… So sick of the hatred. there’s no need for it. Or for the false statistics… Thanks for nothing Faux news

  11. FOX news is going to HELL, they have no shame.

  12. http://www.dhushara.com/book/sakina/fatwah/purdah.htm

    “In both Shiite countries, such as Iran, and Sunni countries, from Saudi Arabia to Afghanistan, women face penalties, from imprisonment to beatings, for not conforming to dress codes. Women who do not conform to the demands to adopt the veil can also be subject to death threats, particularly in regions where radical Islam is a central part of the political agenda.”

    The fact that such a fatwa is needed speaks volumes.

  13. Pathetic. Typical Fox News spin.

  14. Good grief. It’s National Inquirer

  15. Why, Elle you should hear the things that were said back in the oldie days.

  16. Good to drag dirt out into the open, no hope of improvement otherwise.

  17. I always consider the source.

  18. What’s America’s excuse?

  19. Anon
    Haha. Ive read Black like me, the autobiograghy of malcom X and black boy, i dont need to be born 40 years ago to know wat they were saying to and abt colored people. Or arabs. Or muslims.

  20. Fox News at it again. And endless cycle. The more Islamophobic Americans become, the more they’re going to show stuff like this for ratings. This makes the viewers more Islamophobic, and it goes on and on.

  21. Hasfa Omari, I love your comment on the number of women in America being killed by their boyfriends every 3 seconds. First of all it has nothing to do with the story at hand which is claiming that Muslim men are assaulting their wives more often because they do not abide by their view of Islamic Norms or that Women are less tolerant of being controlled by men.

    Secondly lets look at your numbers. Women killed every three seconds by their husband or Boyfriend in the United States. This comes to 20 women killed per minute, 1,200 killed per hour, 28,800 killed per day, with a total of 10,512,000 killed per year by husbands and boyfriends. We have about 300,000,000 people in the United States with about 170,000,000 being women. With this rate of Murder while looking at birth rate and ignoring the negative effect this would have on birth rate we should run out of women to kill in about 20 years. Your numbers are just silly and you should not make things up just to make a point or to use to compare to another problem to make it look smaller. It also makes me wonder how much stuff you simply make up and place on your webpage.

    I end by saying Shame on you and asking if it is allowed in the Koran for a Muslim to make up such a blatent and self serving lie?

  22. Sorry Criley, the point that hafsa made is 100% relevant. People like you and Anon do anything to put Islam and Muslims down and you know well that what is happening in the US is much more! So just chill out man!

  23. How is Hafsa comment relevant if he’s a liar? Doesn’t that just feed into the idea that Muslims will lie if they think it will benefit Islam?

  24. Oh come on Salim, If I made up numbers like that about Muslim men you guys would be having fits. The only good thing about Hasfa’s numbers is that they are so silly that no one with the ability to multiply and divide would believe them. I do not put down Muslims Salim, I put down the actions of Muslims in Muslim Nations that abuse peoples of other religions and do not follow the Koran but enact policies that allow them to control society. I critique Muslims that stand up for and follow cultural traditions which injure or mutalate Women such as Honor Killings even though the Koran forbids such actions. I always question why Muslims would follow such Pagan traditions at the expense of their wives and daughters? Why do Muslims allow Culture to trump the religion of Islam?

    I know this is not all Muslims but Muslim dominated countries do not represent the religion very will.

  25. Hera
    Hafsa is a girls name. The third caliph’s daughter, Hafsa bint Omar. Just letting you know. :D

    I really think non muslims should learn just a LITTLE Arabic. I swear it would clear up so many misconceptions.
    The meaning of Allah, jihad, Hijab, etc.

  26. Criley
    Not every muslim. But, like their fellow Jewish and Christian brethren they tend to try to use their religion as an excuse to do stupid things. Israelis call for the killing of Palestinians because they dont have the right mind to that maybe God was referring to HEAVEN when speaking of the promised land. And christians bombing planned parenthoods cause sex before marriage is wrong. We arent the only ones with Screws loose.

  27. To think*

  28. @Criley,

    Thanks for explaining, If sometimes I am harsh in my answers then please Ignore the harsh part, as most probably I would have already been tired from work then a negative comment on Islam would be the last drop to overflow the bucket of water. Still I do apologize if I ever hurt anyone’s feelings.

    Well Answering your question: even I as a Muslim I will put down an idea from a Muslim if it is contrary to the teaching of Islam.

    It was reported from ‘Awf ibn Maalik who said: the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The Jews were divided into seventy-one sects, one of which is in Paradise and seventy are in the Fire. The Christians were divided into seventy-two sects, seventy-one of which are in the Fire and one is in Paradise. By the One in Whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, my Ummah will be divided into seventy-three sects, one of which will be in Paradise and seventy-two will be in the Fire.” It was said, O Messenger of Allaah, who are they? He said, “Al-Jamaa’ah.”

    Sunan Ibn Maajah, no. 3982.

    What is meant by al-Jamaa’ah is the ‘aqeedah and actions of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and his Companions. End Quote!

    I agree with you Anything that do not reflect the pure teaching of Islam should be denounced.

    Honor killing is non Islamic and it is a MURDER. Islam is complete and has Rules.
    I agree with you there is no place for Tradition in Islam. Islam is complete.
    Allah says:

    “This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favor upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion” QURAN (5.3)

    But you know what? when we out down those traditions we are called Salifists, wahabits and the list is long! So yeah if you think is wrong please highlight it and I will try to answer if I see it.

  29. @ Hera

    “How is Hafsa comment relevant if he’s a liar? Doesn’t that just feed into the idea that Muslims will lie if they think it will benefit Islam?”

    We Sunni Muslims do no lie to cover anything about Islam, and you think you have anything then please bring it on!

    Lying is haraam in all cases, expect those which are exempted by the Lawgiver, and what is mentioned here is not one of those cases, because of the general meaning of the evidence, such as the verse in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “O you who believe! Fear Allaah, and be with those who are true (in words and deeds)” [al-Tawbah 9:119]. In al-Saheehayn and elsewhere it is narrated that ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Mas’ood (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I urge you to be truthful, for truthfulness leads to righteousness, and righteousness leads to Paradise. A man will continue to be truthful and seek to speak the truth until he is recorded with Allaah as speaker of truth (siddeeq). And beware of lying, for lying leads to immorality and immorality leads to Hell; a man will continue to tell lies until he is recorded with Allaah as a liar.” And it was narrated that ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Mas’ood also said: Lying is not appropriate whether in earnest or in jest. Recite if you wish (interpretation of the meaning): “O you who believe! Fear Allaah, and be with those who are true (in words and deeds)” [al-Tawbah 9:119]. Then he said: Do you find any concession allowing that to anyone?

    And Allaah is the Source of strength. May Allaah send blessings upon our Prophet Muhammad and his family and companions. End quote.

    I do agree with you the SHIAA do have something called al TAquiyah, however We sunnis are not shiaa so please if you want to point at something so important that mention the sect!

  30. Criley

    please search the the prophet last sermon and read it. Very short!

    his sermon was delivered on the Ninth Day of Dhul Hijjah 10 A.H. in the ‘Uranah valley of Mount Arafat’ (in Mecca).

  31. The chicken muslims of the west, Salim, are living in the west so as not to encounter those elements of their own faith that would attack, arrest or kill them over points of doctrine.

    When such violence takes place, against Christians or shia, or ahmadi, etc. muslim orgs issue solemn silly paper condemnations.

    Appalling atrocious things go on in muslim places, who cares, the poisoned hearts of the faithful are content that such be murdered in far off places, no skin off my burnoose, because my religion is the correct one, everyone else go die and be damned.

    Then they sweat over imagined insults delivered by Lowe’s or whoever that was that looked at them askance on the sidewalk yesterday.

  32. The non chicken muslims in the west stand up and howl for the blood of non muslims and brag how they are going destroy the gov. and replace it with the wonderful shariah that has worked out so well elsewhere.

    Lots of people can see and hear the menace, except those like Sheila Musaji, Dr. Crane the Insane and other deluded appeasers.

    You are rather obviously here to start killing Christians and Jews and impose your laws on the rest of us. It is absurd to wonder why at least some of the rest of us are getting up and demanding your expulsion.

  33. Anon
    Youve got it alllll wrong. People hate the middle east because of the governments who twist islam to scare the shit out of their subjects/people so they wont try to overthrow them. Ex. Saudi Arabia? Id put in Jordan but it claims to be a “secular” government. Up his. Anyway. Its not our “own”. Like first you say we enjoy this shit, then we run away from it, then we hate it? Ok so why is my friends family still muslim? They left saudia arabia a year ago. They love being being muslim, they love ISLAM down to its core, the people that try to force it on them is what they hate. Youve obviously never befriended a muslim. Youre not observant. Your not cool, either.

  34. Elle, You do not need to be apologetic to Anon, and you may hate the Middle east, but you do not represent 2 billions of Muslims, SO please speak for yourself.

    Anon.
    “NON Chicken” those who speak up for Christians”. No we speak for what ever is just regardless of race, color or religion.

    Our Expulsion??? YOu are a foreigner yourself. JUST GO BACK TO WHERE YOUR FOREFATHERS were from! Period. As a matter of fact, Muslims were here before you. We should ask for your expulsion! So please be my guest and take a running jump!

  35. Salim muslims stand for peace and justice only in their own imaginations.

    Muslims were not here before me, that is another of their endless self grandizing lies.

  36. Anon

    This tells me how ignorant you are with regards to your lack of knowledge on this subject, without mentioning the foul language you use in your comments! I guess you need to educate yourself a little bit more

    By you stating that Muslims were not there before you, means you knowledging that you are a FOREIGNER. So please just do us a favor, pack your stuff and take a swim across the Atlantic to where ever you originally came from! and once you get to where ever that place might be, Open your eyes because you will find yourself with Muslims all around you!

    And Yes Muslims Stand for peace and Justice! I guess you need to go to a mosque and ask them for some books.

    Anon, just convert to Islam and we wont argue anymore Buddy! lol

  37. Anon
    The first africa americans here were slaves, right? Islam had spread through Africa by then. There were muslim princes, muslim farmers muslim whatever. Thats why you have african americans with names like “omar” “jamal” “rashida” “lateefa (yes its an arabic name) and so on. Do your research.

  38. Salim
    How abt we let him rot in his own ignorance. Find God by himself. Honestly we should just pray for his deliverance.

  39. The Africans selling the slaves were muslims. Slavery still in Africa today. SA abolished it in 1965. Some slaves maybe were muslims but most were animists, they contributed their odd beliefs to our folklore

    I do not recall any contemporary lit regarding slaves engaged in muslim style prayer, but remember stories of slaves making charms, Haitian style spirit worship, etc.

    I would not expect muslims posting here to be involved in ethnic cleansing, you’d all be in the dear me crowd. As in “dear me this is terrible.” Sheila M runs dear me pieces regularly.

    I often see pieces by muslims fantasizing about how they used to run the world and discovered everything. That would fall to pieces if they read more widely.

  40. Like many americans, I am a braid of varioius peoples.

  41. Anon
    I dont think that hapened. We didnt discover the world or everything, but we did make advances. Astronomy/astrology? We go by the lunar calendar. We have to estimate the coming of each month, the time of everyprayer, and since eid everymonth has a margin of 11 days….we looked to the sky. It kinda makes sense.
    Health/medicine. Were huge with cleanliness. And the Quran says there is a cure for every disease. We didnt cure anything, but we helped MAKE AdVANCES our religion tells us to seek knowledge. So we did. Ibn Sina=avicenna. We tried.
    And i dont agree with that we did everything crap. Its like when Egyptians say they are the direct descendants of Muhammad. Lol the only known descendant of him so far is some shiite sheikh in Iran or something.

  42. And not all of the slavedrivers were muslims, and no alot were muslim, some were converted by their owners and renamed though. And ha if a slavedriver saw his slave reading quran or praying whatd happen to them? They do it in secret or disregard it all together.

  43. Elle, it would be good if you could find written commentary by slaveowners that some of their slaves were muslim. All I have read to date says that they worshipped spirits and made charms.

    I have seen fantasies by muslims saying the Amerindians were muslims. Should we be visited by martians, I would expect to see the same claim.

    The message is that you are the end all and the be all, everyone should live under your heel and you have the right to kill those who do not believe in your religion.

    Meanwhile the subject peoples are exploring Mars, inventing cars, computers etc. while you are working your headscarf, and you must flee to kuffar lands in order to live with rights in safety and order.

  44. Anon you are simply an Ignorant person who hides behind these lines. Tell us the truth, Were you one of those kids whose their moms gives them their food to take to school only to be taken away from them by other boys!
    you see that you were never loved! I have a good feeling that you live alone without anyone visiting you! I don’t know how you manage to pay for the internet! What a waste of life Damn loser!

  45. Anon
    While your sittin there running your mouth, im studying for midterms. In a private college prep school. Going on to teach ignorant people like you what it really means to be Muslim. And there are still muslims making advances and participating in drama, art, literature, sciences, criminal justice, we arent just sitting here ok? Maybe were not astrologists now but LOL in 20 yrs you might have a certain muslim womans name on the voting ballot (not me my friend-i hate politics) we have muslims fighting in the war, us soldiers of the muslim faith, defending your sorry ass.
    American indians? Ive never heard that.

    http://islam.about.com/od/history/a/afammuslims.htm

  46. Salim, I begin to post here just to see what you will say next.

  47. http://www.whyislam.org/muslim-world/african-muslim-slaves-in-the-americas-an-understudied-presence/

    Elle, I think this link is a plate of fantastical horse muffins of the very type I avoid. Some muslims exchanged truth for fantasy years ago.

    It simply does not accord with what I have read on the subject. i will look for more info.

    Muslim traders sold their fellow Africans, mostly animist believers, I suppose to cleanse their territories of their presence. Were we still buying thse unfortunates, muslims would be selling them instead of killing them.

  48. Dr Anon, for your information, I can open a website within an hour and upload a loads of BS for people like you to say oh I studied!

    Do not give links (not accepted source), you need to bring a better trusted source.

    Oh now you write just to see what I have to say next!

    Elle is much younger and makes so much sense in the approach. Sorry honestly but I am sure you are a retired staying all day at home wasting your life on attacking muslims. Well go join your Role model Pamela Geller! you could carry her bag!

  49. I hereby promote myself.

  50. cghs.dadeschools.net/slavery/antebellum_slavery/plantation_slave_life/diet_religion/religion.htm

  51. Anon
    You’re really stupid.
    We get muslim slave traders. We also have bin laden. Who traded Islam for fantasy. There are deranged muslims out there, but do you reallly expect all of us to be that way. If theres one thing that sucks about America its people like you who talk through their asses

  52. I am not saying everybody is any sort of way.

  53. Anon
    “why would people want to see you coming?” you said that before. Implying that im this violent and terrible human being only because Im Muslim. And LOL i noticed you didnt talk abt the astronomy advances we made,, because of the lunar calendar,….oh and btw Dr anon you could be “educated” but still culturally and socially illiterate.

  54. I must leave kal. I was born here dummy. My parents came here because Israel woulndt give them a good education and work. And kuffar lands? How is america a kafir land? Mekka in ancient arabia was a land of kufaar but america has christians and jews and muslims too so you cant label it that. Seriously none of you are from Quraysh and your all claiming to be proud kuffar. Youre all idiots

  55. Think about it. Why would non muslims welcome muslims? No, I am not talking about you and your family specifically.

    Islam thinks that muslims should rule over everyone else and no doubt there are a good many muslims here who dream of killing Jews and putting Christians in their dhimmi place to be slaughtered at leisure later.

    In meantime make moves on silly women, show up at silly churches with interfaith bosh.

  56. Anon again you are STUPID ans as USUAL you are speaking from your butt

Have your say!

Add your comment below, or trackback from your own site. You can also subscribe to these comments via RSS.

Be nice. Keep it clean. Stay on topic. No spam.

You can use these tags:
<a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>