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Is Child Marriage a Muslim Problem?

8 May 2012 Loonwatch.com 37 Comments Email This Post Email This Post
Laxmi Sargara, 18, holds her certificate of the annullment of her marriage outside the court Tuesday in Jodhpur, India.

Laxmi Sargara, 18, holds her certificate of the annullment of her marriage outside the court Tuesday in Jodhpur, India.

Is Child Marriage a Muslim Problem?

Loons often attribute child marriages exclusively to Muslims, but a Unicef report says 47 percent of married women in India wed before age 18. Unicef also says 40 percent of the world’s child marriages take place in secular, Hindu-majority India.

As this map clearly shows, the practice is widespread in many parts of the world, most notably in parts of Africa:

Disregarding anthropology (the comparative study of human societies) and eager to pin every social ill on Islam, anti-Muslim activists portray child marriage as unique to Muslim communities, and citeIslamic Law as a major obstacle to ending the practice. In fact, most Muslim-majority countries have legal age limits for marriage comparable to Western countries. According to the United Nations, in Algeria, Bangladesh, Iraq, Jordan, Malaysia, and Morocco, the legal age a female can marry is 18, and in Tunisia, it’s 20.  Most of the remaining Muslim-majority countries have ages set for females ranging from 15-17, and in all of these countries, the age for boys is either the same or slightly higher. India has also set the legal limit to age 18, but as is the case in many countries, the law isdifficult to enforce, especially in rural areas, where historical, cultural, and economic factors often outweigh legal restrictions.

Akha Teej  is considered an auspicious day, when one does not have to consult any astrologer. This is the best time for marriages … Even our epics mention about child marriages. There is no harm in performing it, as the children do not live together and stay together only after attaining adulthood. ~ Priest in Rajasthan, Al Jazeera

Recently police and administration officials were injured when they were attacked by a group of villagers conducting child marriages in Rajasthan on the holy day of Akshaya Tritiya. Now a young Indian woman has won a landmark case that challenges the culture of child weddings. (h/t: Zangia)

Indian baby bride Laxmi Sargara wins annulment in landmark case

By msnbc.com staff

An Indian woman who was a baby bride has had her 17-year marriage legally annulled in a ground-breaking case challenging the culture of child weddings, Agence France Presse reported Wednesday.

Laxmi Sargara was 1 year old when she was married to a 3-year-old boy named Rakesh in the desert state of Rajasthan in northwestern India, the French news agency said. Their families decided that when they grew up they would live together and have children.

Child marriages, outlawed in India in 1929, are still common in many parts of the country, especially in rural and poorer communities, AFP said. A Unicef report says 47 percent of married women in India wed before age 18. Unicef also says 40 percent of the world’s child marriages take place in India.

“I was unhappy about the marriage,” Sargara, now 18, told AFP. “I told my parents who did not agree with me, then I sought help. Now I am mentally relaxed and my family members are also with me.”

Girls married off in infancy often remain in their parents’ homes until they reach puberty and then are taken amid great celebrations to their husbands’ families, AFP said. When Sargara just days ago discovered that she was married and would be sent to her husband’s home this week, she sought advice from social worker Kriti Bharti, who runs the children’s rights group Sarathi Trust, AFP said.

Bharti negotiated with Rakesh, the groom, who only uses one name, and both families to persuade them that the marriage was unfair, AFP reported. “It is the first example we know of a couple wed in childhood wanting the marriage to be annulled, and we hope that others take inspiration from it,” Bharti told AFP.

Rakesh, an earth-mover driver, at first wanted to press ahead with the relationship but was convinced by Sargara’s fierce opposition that the marriage should be revoked, Bharti said. The marriage was annulled through a joint legal document signed by the bride and groom and validated by a public official in Jodhpur, AFP said.

“To ensure that the girl does not face any problem in future, we decided to go for a legal agreement,” said Indu Chaupra, local director of the ministry of women and child development, told AFP.

The annulment coincided with the Akshaya Tritiya festival, a traditional date for mass child weddings. On Sunday, villagers in Rajasthan attacked and injured at least 12 government officials who tried to stop a wedding of about 40 child couples, AFP said. A recent survey found that 10 percent of girls in Rajasthan are married off before the age of 18, the BBC reported.

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37 Comments »

  1. I notice that muslims are more comfortable discussing their problems when they can point to other cultures having the same quirks.

    When I first started reading muslim sites there was the attitude that muslim arrangements were perfect, everyone else was flawed. Nowadays they will admit to having a problem as long as it is shared by others. For example abuse of women.

  2. anon,

    You are right. Muslims do have many problems. Hence, you said you used to read Muslim sites, found that they did not admit their own faults and when caught, they would cite its commonality with others. Fine. But when more than one community has same kind of fault(s), why should a specific community be targeted?

  3. Its actually general human problems we just like to wrap people up in different groups so we can point at them and ridicule making ourselves feel better.

  4. I am not Anon up there.

    When I first started reading muslim sites they were amazing in their blind assertions of perfection. I still see posts claiming that there is absolutely no persecution of anyone going on in their perfect lands.

    Years back, I remember an imam of thirty-forty saying muslim women who had run away from abusive husbands were no longer muslims because they had run away. They were supposed to return and put up with whatever was being dished out.

    I don’t think an imam would say that in public nowadays, unless he was one of the crazy types.

    Muslims are not some sort of humanoid mutants. They greatly resemble communists, Nazis, Old time US white southerners, in their denial and delusions of perfection.

  5. dongo,

    did you see that both siyjakak and marcelo said there is nothing wrong with marrying children, if they consent of course.

    “But when more than one community has same kind of fault(s), why should a specific community be targeted?” because it is the community at large who doesn’t admit to the problem. western communities don’t defend child marriages, except maybe in alabama. also the greater problem is that “the prophet” set a bad example, marrying a 9 year old. if jesus had done the same thing, then i would hope they would be targeted. actually one would hope that that would happen considering the bad example of joseph and mary.

    you do know the…well here’s the link. http://articles.cnn.com/2009-01-17/world/saudi.child.marriage_1_saudi-arabia-deeply-conservative-kingdom-top-saudi-cleric?_s=PM:WORLD

  6. I am a white, Scotch-Irish Southerner whose family is Episcopalian and my great grandmother married a 32 year old man when she was 12. It’s a practice that all cultures have done and are either gradually moving away from or have already abandoned. Poorer countries move slower, that’s the way it is with everything from electricity to social norms. And you can find plenty of Christians (look at all of those court cases coming from Utah) who do it, too.

    Back in the day people went by maturity levels. Women, whose job was traditionally in the home raising children, were considered mature when they were physically able to become pregnant. Men, whose job was to provide food, shelter and protection to said women and children, were considered mature when they had enough money to do these things which takes more time. Gender roles are changing and so are our perceptions of maturity levels.

    And yes, it is human nature to say that other people are doing things, too. That’s because they are trying to point out that we’re all human and humans make mistakes and do terrible things. There are Christians who want the US to become a Christian state with Christian laws that may or may not expell non-Christians and they are open about this, too.

    As a Muslim yes, I would like to live in a Muslim country. Sharing your religion and view point with the people around you makes life a lot easier *but* I still have Christian and nonchristian family and friends that I love dearly. I don’t want them to die or think that they are dirt beneath my feet. As the US was founded to become a haven for religious freedom I don’t think it is appropriate for it to become a religious nation. That’s why I don’t really care about gay marriage though on principle I do think it’s wrong. I also think it’s none of my business what two men/women do on their own time. I won’t stand before God defending their actions when the day comes- I’ll have enough to worry about on my own. When I get the money I plan to move to a Muslim country that shares my individual view points. Until then I live and let live and just try to be nice to people. Sometimes it works, sometimes I get spit on on the way out of Wal-mart. It just depends.

    And yes, many Muslims completely lose the plot and think that they are qualified as judges of man kind and that they are worthy of choosing who should and should not be allowed to live (not talking about self-defense, you come at me I’ll defend myself and my property) but get this- that’s a people thing. People can translate things to sound the way they want to suit their own agendas. It happens in every religion. Not just Islam.

    Now hopefully I don’t hurt myself climbing down off of my soapbox.

  7. By all means, Maryam, go and live in a muslim country.

  8. Anon/anon,

    I can’t agree with you. We did not kill 6-7 million Jews, bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Katyn forest and Lidice Massacres,kill the Austrian Archduke. Even if you put all the killer Muslims together, they will be put to utter shame if compared to Hitler or Stalin. Now you may refer to to a lousy motherfucker Will Durant who said Muslims killed 80 million Hindus from 8th-16th centuries?

  9. Dongo: Huh? I did not say muslims were the great killers of all time. What they are is a large set of delusional people who may touch off a worldwide conflagration.

    Those of us who know what worldwide conflagration means are concerned.

  10. Maryam alKorji,

    “Scotch-Irish Southerner whose family is Episcopalian” sorry for your luck. jk. so when you where 12 did anyone in your family suggest that you should be married? if it was good enogh for grandma it’s good enough for you? or something like that?

    “It’s a practice that all cultures have done” true. “and are either gradually moving away from or have already abandoned.” that may not be true. so you are prevy to the social movement of all cultures. i doubt it. anyways that’s the problem. some cultures aren’t moving away from it. some are even moving back to it.

    “And you can find plenty of Christians (look at all of those court cases coming from Utah) who do it, too.” true. it seems that those that follow the god of abraham are prone to such things. but do you see the differance. you hear these stories from “court cases”. in much of the islamic world the society at-large supports the practice.

    “qualified as judges of man kind and that they are worthy of choosing who should and should not be allowed to live” that’s called hudud, isn’t it? have you read the koran. “and let not pity keep you from this task” read the opening of al-nur. are you sunni? have you ever read any hadiths. muhammad decides who should live or die on multiple occasions. ali burns atheists alive.

    “I plan to move to a Muslim country that shares my individual view points.” good luck with that search. maybe morroco. but i think they just expanded their parliment and the salafist just won a bunch of seats.

    “Until then I live and let live and just try to be nice to people” you sure you’re a muslim? too bad muhammad didn’t have your wisdom.

  11. Dongo,

    holy shit, you forgot the crusades. you need to reread your handbook on answering islam bashers. page one deflection, mention the crusades. lol.

    anyone going to chastise dongo for getting of topic? jk dongo i love tangents and getting way off topic. so has anyone seen the latest on the iraqi-californian’s death?

  12. “so are our perceptions of maturity levels.” thank god for that. oh wait, god could have just said something to his prophet “back in the day”???????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    http://www.iwhc.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3487&Itemid=629
    “Because their bodies (bone structure, pelvis, reproductive organs) are not yet fully developed, girls ages 14 and younger run a very high risk of complications in pregnancy and childbirth compared with older adolescents.3
    Prolonged and obstructed labor, which is common among pregnant young adolescents, can lead to hemorrhage, severe infection, and maternal death. This is especially true for girls who experience additional pregnancy-related complications such as eclampsia. Those who survive may suffer from obstetric fistula,a debilitating condition that causes chronic incontinence and results in shame and social isolation.8″

    you would think “the creator” would know such things???????????????

  13. mike,

    If I am wrong, everyone has every right to chastise, punish, correct even behead me or send me to the firing squad; I won’t mind and don’t see it as a problem.

    I did not study any handbook to answer petty pond frogs/street dogs/ sewer rats and worms like you claiming to be “Islam bashers”. I don’t need that. When you stay off topic, that is not a crime or oddity and termed scholarly deviation instead. When someone opposing your wholesale trash does the same, that is wrong, correct? When mother and fatherfuckers like Spencer, Pam Geller, Pipes, Malkin lash out at Muslims and Islams, that is their freedom of speech; when Muslims or someone else bite them back, that is intolerance. Truly, O Seleucus, how strange the world is!

    I am off topic? What the hell then are you doing on a forum “Americans against Islamophobia” with your anti-Islam and Muslim filth?

  14. dongo,

    that’s hilarious dude, “pond frogs/street dogs/ sewer rats and worms like you”. comeon ur going to make me cry. lol.

    “When you stay off topic, that is not a crime or oddity and termed scholarly deviation instead.” thanks i get off topic all the time.

    mbennet, justin case. did you hear that? i’m a deviate scholar appearently?

    “I am off topic? What the hell then are you doing on a forum “Americans against Islamophobia” with your anti-Islam and Muslim filth?” did you mean to say “anti-muslim filth”?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seleucus_I_Nicator? is this your referance?? my ignorance runs deep.

    anyways are you a learned muslim? what do you think of the opening of the 24th surah? u speak arabic? how do u define zina?

    “What the hell then are you doing on a forum “Americans against Islamophobia”” just having fun. and learning quite a bit. but to get back on subject so i don’t get beheaded, i would have a problem with that. for instance i have learned that marcelo and siyjakak both have no problem with child marriages. what say you sir? follow the example of the prophet and marry a 9 year old. only if she consents of course.

  15. mike,

    Do not call me sir, ok? I have problem with that term. That may not be S. Nicator; my Seleucus was a general in Alexander’s army. I am not a learned Muslim. I am just a lawyer, not Shariah Law by the way but of British legal systems. For your information, I am not acquainted with the Quran well and do not often mention it even. You are doing fun, good. Go on. But be careful, do not cross the limits. Now you may say that Muslims always do that and refer to anything bad done by them. Remember, no smoke without fire.

    Now come to the Prophet’s marriage age of Aisha. It remains still deeply debated even within Muslim scholars just as many other concepts of Islam. That does not anyway mean that the Prophet was hankering after having child/infant brides. As you may be knowing that it was a custom in those days. For myself, I don’t want women, either in this world or hereafter. I am still bachelor and happy with that.

  16. dongo,

    see this is hilarious again. so you call me a pond frog? i’m not even sure why that’s an insult? where would a frog live other then in a pond? i guess a tree frog is better then a pond frog? street dog and sewer rat i get. lol. but i call you sir and you take offence. well i’m from the south here in the good ole us of a. although i’m not from texas i’ll barrow this lyric, “We say “Yes sir” and “Thank you ma’am”
    If you don’t like that we don’t give a damn”.

    “But be careful, do not cross the limits” whoa. now i’m scared. this isn’t fun anymore….lol. so what are the limits. you’re a lawyer. you can write better law then this: “5:33 Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,” so how do you define corruption?

    tree frog, did you read the article above? that’s alright i skip the articles sometimes too and go right to the comments. but you should check it out. seems still a widespread custom in much of the non-western world. check the stats. but you have to keep in mind the spin often used on this site. first they group no data available and not a widespread custom both as gray? not sure why they couldn’t come up with a 6th color. sorry colour. hilarious that saudi arabia is coloured the same as the usa. http://articles.cnn.com/2009-01-17/world/saudi.child.marriage_1_saudi-arabia-deeply-conservative-kingdom-top-saudi-cleric?_s=PM:WORLD also they seem to want to deflect to india. yet aren’t there like 200 million muslims in india?

    so i say to the question “Is Child Marriage a Muslim Problem?” that’s a resounding yes. they should have asked is child marriage a problem exclusive to islam? that would obviously be a no.

    you have a good day pumpkin.

  17. Seleucus, heh, what name dropping. It is worthwhile to read Spencer and sift out the obvious puffed up claims, just as one would do on this site.

    Without the mountains of yak yak hurled at their heads these days, I wonder if muslims would consider that they might have problems, or be problems, at all.

  18. mike,

    Don’t take my words otherwise. The reason “Sir” offends me is that I come of a very humble background; when some calls me sir, I feel I am disrespecting that person. So, I have requested even trainees at our office to call me brother.

    You need not to be scared. The limits may be: insulting other’s feelings. I have non-Muslim friends. We often cut jokes regarding each other’s faiths, but never hurt our faiths. Hence, the comments you often make are derogatory. I mustt say that Muslims are largely liable for hearing these comments, but that does not mean you will believe all Muslims are direct progeny of the Devil. I am grateful to you for your title “Tree Frog” to me.

    Punishment against those who wage war on Allah? Well, you can see that our scriptures have been grossly misused by our clerics and rulers (?!*) for centuries. Just some example: many Muslim clerics say the heaven for the wife is beneath the feet of her husband. Absolute trash. The real Haadis is the heaven for the children is beneath the feet of their mother (Soonnaan)-e-Nasayee Sharif, Haadis 3106). In the Friday Sermon, they often say: O Allah, may you rain peace and blessings on Abbas and His desecendants. Why? The Abbasids (not Abbas Himself) were Satan’s lot. They conspired with the Franks to topple the Umayyids. They also partially caused the downfalls of Fatimids and Some Persian Muslim dynasties.

    How can you call me to write laws? I studied law but how can that allow me to write those written by people whose feet are higher than myself, regardless of they were Muslims or non-Muslims ? Do you want me to be punished by the government or declared an apostate by the religion?

    You mentioned the punishment. But see when these punishments were used, there used to be little corruption. And why don’t you mention the hellish sufferings undergone by Muslims prior to they became powerful?

    Thanks for your wish for me (Pumpkin), but this pumpkin will have to struggle unless pumpkin becomes a barrister-at-law from Lincoln’s Inn.

  19. Ok. Nice piece editor. One thing though : Child marriages are illegal in India. So when someone does it, the law can go after them and usually does it. In Islamic cultures, it is kosher because the perfect man did it and to perfectly follow the perfect man is the perfect way to Allah. Correct ?!!! ;)

  20. “when some calls me sir, I feel I am disrespecting that person” strange? but it takes all types, right. different strokes for different folks. alright bro, but “You need not to be scared. The limits may be: insulting other’s feelings” well i do that all the time, i guess. you aren’t the only one to have such a visceral reaction to my comments.

    “But see when these punishments were used, there used to be little corruption.” that’s what actually does scare me. corruption is a broadly defined term. appearently having sex outside of marriage is corruption. especial if there are four witnesses, or if it results in pregnancy. drinking is appearently spreading corruption. a woman not covering herself “properly” could be spreading corruption?

    “How can you call me to write laws? I studied law but how can that allow me to write those written by people whose feet are higher than myself,” damn how’d they get higher then a tree frog? don’t be afraid to jump. do they build all courthouses with steps leading up to them in britian. i imagine that is where we got the concept from right? cameron is no genius. i bet you can write better law then him. you going to have to wear a powdered wig. the brits crack me up. i bet you can write better law then 4:11. i know i can.

    gender shall not be given any consideration in matters of the law. those who come before the bench shall be treated equally in the eyes of the law.

  21. oh my bad, yes the pagan arabs didn’t care much for muslims. they where driven from mecca. muhammad was pelted with rocks by children one time when he was preaching. he stopped the practice of female infantcide and gave women some inheritance right, when before they had none. i’m not saying he wasn’t forward thinking for his time. there have just been better law givers since him.

  22. Dear Mike,

    I am a human being and so, I have my limits which I try to stay within. You call me a tree frog,fine, but as I am a government employee, I can’t disobey the country’s rules. And if you have problems with British legal systems, then don’t consider them fit for modern day; it is your choice. But then you also need to discard Roman law systems which have heavily influenced the British one.

    And for your kind information, recently my country’s government tried to pass a law on interracial/faith marriage (based on the British system) which was vehemently protested by Muslims and non-Muslims alike. You may be knowing that my country was a British colony and therefore we still follow the British systems, not only law but many other things. No government has ever tried to change these. When anyone did, that faced serious repercussions from the government.

  23. dear dongo,

    my bad. your use of the term barrister threw me. so you are in a commonwealth nation? pakistan? india? “I can’t disobey the country’s rules.” so you’re no believer in civil disobediance? you’re no rosa parks, mlk or ganhdi? ok. few people are. as for the british and roman systems of law. i’m sure we still have remenants of both. hopefully only the good parts. but we don’t allow the government to quarter soldiers in people’s houses nor do we crucify people. you don’t have to through the baby out with the bath water.

    “No government has ever tried to change these. When anyone did, that faced serious repercussions from the government.” too bad. sounds like you need a revolution.

    for your kind info…. http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/11107

  24. Mike,

    Yes, a commonwealth nation. I do believe in civil disobedience, but my country is overburdened with population, public awareness and education rate is very low.

    Look, what I think right may be wrong even obscene/banned for others. I am a heavy smoker and can’t do without it. But anti-smoking campaigners will, who are becoming stonger day by day, if possible, sue me claiming I am harming people and encouraging children to learn smoking. I never smoke in their presence.

    We do need a revolution but not against Islam but against our motherfucker politicians, foreign agents and puppets, and our dunghead, imp clerics.

    You mentioned RP, DR. MLK, very good. I pay every respect to them from the depths of my heart. But I can’t respect Gandhi who was a snake in disguise.

  25. one of the great impedments to civil liberty is the idea of “protecting the children” the right-wing evangelicals and the left-wing liberals both imploy that non-sense with equal regularity, but usually on very different subjects.

    well yeah a revolt is by definition against those in charge, or the power structure of a civilization. but i wouldn’t through islam off the list to quickly. it often puts the concern for the safety of the community above personal liberty. i bet you could find a few fatawas against smoking?

    ok. looks like to me he must of had a pretty good disguise? so what made him a snake. you maybe prevy to some info that they white washed here in the west.

    http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mahatma_gandhi.html

    An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind.
    Mahatma Gandhi

  26. you’re not in east pakistan? see that is one of the things i learned visiting this website. well i googled it, but it was a side affect of this website. i’m sure you knew that bangladesh was east pakistan after partition in 47. or was it 49. looks like the india backed the bangadeshis in the war in 71? don’t tell me you want bangladesh back in the fold of pakistan? half the country floods every rainy season. and talk about low education rate and over population.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-18093109

  27. Mike,

    Overpoulation, low educaiton and high poverty, to my mind, are eating into my country. But you may not view those as problems. Hence, you are 100% free to opine. Many men, many minds.

    We are a sovereign country, satisfied with that and have no will to return to the vicious Pakistani clutch.

    I won’t comment much on historical issues as you may accuse me of going astray. East Pakistan came into being on 14-08-1947. The swine West Pakistanis were usurping the eastern wing by every means: religious, political, economic, cultural—all. But there was a graver, historic threat called India. Since 14-08-47 (and even before that), Indian politicians, cultural activists and figureheads, economists, theorists all had been trying to incite a separatist trait in the eastern wing of Pakistan. Some examples: the Anandabazar Group, a leading publishing house in West Bengal, published a book claiming that in the stomach of a hilsa fish (a fish barely two feet), a Hindu woman’s head was found. In the cultural sphere, all literature by Muslim writers were entirely kicked out and Hindu literature full of vehemently anti-Muslim and Islamic slurs were established instead. The university and college students, despite being Muslims hereditarily, adopted totally Hindu culture in marriage, dress code, personal naming and sexuality. You may accuse me of racism and Indophobia. But brother, what I am saying are dirty truth. Babu Jagajeevan Rama, defence secretary of Indira Gandhi, after West Pakistani beasts began the bloody massacre of East Pakistanis (now Bangladesh, independent on 16-12-1971), said that “India should by no means waste this divine opportunity to disintegrate Pakistan”. In fact, in those days, China and Pakistan were two dire enemies of India; so, when there was chance to take down one, why should India, having a historic rivalry with Pakistan, waste it. Mr. Rama was indeed used by Indira Gandhi to promote India’s mean purposes; Rama’s daughter wrote this in a book. She added that Indira lured Rama for suporting in having higher achievements in politics. But he was deprived.

    Later in independent Bangladesh, India continued its ravaging. The Dhaka University, established during the British colonial days, was stripped of Muslims identity, albeit, it was Hindus who opposed it like death and even tried to destroy it by false allegations presenting to the British viceroy. Muslims donated blood, money and land for establishing the University but they were everytime opposed by Hindus. One writer, Mohitlal Majumder said, “Why would be farmer and dunghead Muslims and low-caste Hindus of east Bengal need a university? Their culture is agriculture.”

    As for Gandhi, yes he was a snake. And the quotation you cite, is from Jesus Christ, a hyper holy soul without believing and respecting whom, I can’t become a Muslim even. To Gandhi, independence from British rule and establishing a Hindu ruled India was 100% synonymous. He shed crocodile tears for Muslims and other minorities but he was utterly racist. When Sharatchandra Basu (Netaji Subhash’s younger brother), proposed for the Punjab and Bengal regions to remain unified instead of being divided, Gandhi rebuked him in the possible strongest languages. Ultimately, Sharat Bose left the talks being disgusted and hopeless. Dr. B Ambedkar, the progenitor of Indian Constitution, once told that “I am a dalit and Gandhi is a Brahmin, an always racist and supremacist. He thinks himself higher, wiser and holier than God. He opposes the British overtly and covertly deals with them for making an upper-caste Hindu ruled independent India. If a snake and Gandhi or any high caste Hindu passed in front of me, I would rather spare the snake and kill Gandhi or the upper-caste Hindu.”

  28. Fascinating post, Dongo.

  29. dongo,

    see this is fun. never spoken with anyone from bangladesh before.

    “I won’t comment much on historical issues as you may accuse me of going astray” you still don’t get me. i was being sarcastic because mr bennet and justin case both yelled at my for not staying on topic. others have as well on several occasion. please give me all the history you know. like i said ganhdi is often held up a above politics and of being an example of tolerance. at least what little i’ve heard of him.

    “You may accuse me of racism and Indophobia” why would i do that? the caste system is terrible. worst then even the abrahamic religious law.

    well if jesus said that, then did he arbogate the old law? mr. bennet keeps saying that matthew 5:17, i think it is? jesus says “i am not here to change the old law but to fullfill it.” so you’re not a believer in rajm? jesus said let he who is without sin cast the first stone, yet muhammad stoned people. ya’ll confuse me. but i guess it is easy to confuse a sewer rat. lol.
    but i don’t think jc said that. ccc or anon, certainly you would know the chapter and verse?

    http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/30302.html

    “Overpoulation, low educaiton and high poverty, to my mind, are eating into my country. But you may not view those as problems.” i think the whole world is being eaten into by overpopulation. we should never have innoculated the world against all those diseases god created. people in much of the world didn’t change their breeding habbits dispite a higher survival rate for children. but culture is a powerful thing and often slow to change.

  30. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_Liberation_War

    “Wary of the growing involvement of India, the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) launched a pre-emptive strike on Indian Air Force bases on 3 December 1971. The attack was modelled on the Israeli Air Force’s Operation Focus during the Six-Day War, and intended to neutralize the Indian Air Force planes on the ground. The strike was seen by India as an open act of unprovoked aggression. This marked the official start of the Indo-Pakistani War.”

    the irony. lol

    ya’ll don’t seem to have a very good census taking? between 300,000 and 3 million. between 300 and 500 thousand from the cyclone? i would hope even bangladesh could be a little more accurate then that?

  31. I think Dongo’s post illustrates a bit of the tragedy and bitterness of people unable to separate church and state, tribe and caste for the common good. I have seen posts recently by Bangladeshis saying they have good laws that can’t be implemented, not enough authority.

  32. seems you should have a bigger beef with nixon then ganhdi. at least when it comes to bangladeshi liberation war. wasn’t ganhdi dead by then.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_telegram#The_Blood_telegram

  33. anon,

    Right you are. There is no concept of ‘state religion’ in Islam yet many Muslim countries (mine too) have it. The system of monarchy is categorically banned. See Muslims after the Rashiduns to date.

    In Bangladesh, if you judge deeply, it may seem to you that people are living in a mediaeval monarchy with every kind of corruption thinkable and unthinkable. Just one example: the word ‘Fatwa’ means an opinion, not a verdict by a judge. Also, only a highly learned, pious and just person can give a fatwa but observing that is not mandatory.

    And on law, if you see, Bangladesh police may rank the most corrupt and vicious on earth. I personally deal lots of cases everyday regarding their devilish acts. Most of the police are Muslims.

  34. Mike,

    Nixon did really bad things. But at least he was honest in revealing his mentality unlike Gandhi who on one hand shed crocodile tears and preparing to deprive, subjugate and if possible, decimate downtrodden minorities on the other. For that reason, you may consider giving Nixon some higher marks than Gandhi. Again, it is your choice.

  35. dongo,

    got it boss. i’ll go hitler, stalin, mao, ghandi, pol pot, nixon? anyways, that was a fun tangent. so do you think it is ok to marry a 9 year old, if she consents, of course?

    “There is no concept of ‘state religion’ in Islam” WHAT???? i keep hearing that islam is an “all encompasing” religion, as in it includes rules for governance. does not islam lay down a penal code? huhud? does it not set inheritance rights?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12956907

  36. Mike,

    I did not study Islamic Law. So, you better ask a concerned one. S/he may tell you better.

    As for marrying, even if a girl that age consents, I will oppose it. This marriage thing has been a Stephen King horror story for me. I am 37 now. When I was 24, my mother went to one of her known women’s home and requested her daughter for marriage to me (we knew them for about 22 years); but the women and her husband got angry. I can’t remember the whole incident as I knew it not from my mother but others. The girl’s parents got very angry and shouted at my mom–”How dare you a small farm owner women dream of having a rich man’s daughter as your daughter-in- law? Get out now.” My mon first denied this but when I threatened her about my suicide, she gave in. Tell me, how can a flesh and blood human who has seen his/her mother taking hellish pains in rearing him/her, withstand such an insult?

    Later, a cousin of that girl proposed me but I respectfully rejected her fearing she might be in troubles from the family who insulted us. Now, I earn about 6,000 USD a month, but I have vowed that until becoming as rich as capable of smoking cigarettes made of dollar/pound bills, I will not even think of marriage.

    As for the age, marrying very young girls was a custom in the known world then. In Arabia, scenes were similar. And I am right, there is no concept of state religion in Islam. It was invented by the Umayyids and continues to date. You search various sites, you may get better information.

    Regarding inheritance, I still say I deal with criminal law (British system), not civil ones. You better ask a civil lawyer who also knows about Islamic inheritance laws.

  37. I’m indian… I had not heard of child marriege till i was around 16 n studying history… child marriage is an impact of mugal raj (muslim rule over india during 6th n 7th centuries) if hindus u are talking abt were even a bit spiritual or hindu culture followers it wudb impossible to get married before the age of 20 according to the hindu culture ppl have to remain brahmachari (like a priest/saint) till their education is complete which starts from age 5 for gals n 9 for boys… by the time this completes they were apx 20… here they r supposed to get arranged married by comparing their traits n compatibility, they enter grahast ashram which is a married life n later when their kids r around 2 they enter sanyas ashram which is meditating till they die. but ppl r ignorant, hindus r not hindus they r sum kinna superstitious uneducated insure ppl now who have no idea what casts are. I’m a brahman gal n i’m agnostic thiest (non religious but a believer) I exactly know everything about my culture which is not a religeon… hindus r free ppl n they can decide what they wish to be n how to reach salvation, but instead they live by the myths… its sad very very very sad. Anyways instead arguging on which religeon is good how abt just educating ppl abt ethics n facts n science n cultures n reasons for behaviour/deeds/actions. Everyone should study psychology to understand y ppl do that they do n history to understand how it happened that hardened… m glad that m all sorted i’m brahman not cuz my parents r i’m so cuz m scholar. busnessmen r called vaishya, political leaders or any kinna leaders r called kshatriyas n rest of the helper group like farmers n workers r shudhras n they r not untouchables… untouchables were outcasts who were evil ppl… outcsting is a punishment in society for bad deed, criminal deed or just being sumone really evil. untouchabl punishment is like life tym imprisonment n next to this was sentance to death. Oh well have a good tym readers n try to maintain peace by nor provoking ppl n have lil common sense.

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