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The Muslim Brotherhood: Crucifixion or Just Plain Fiction?

20 August 2012 Loonwatch.com 36 Comments Email This Post Email This Post

The Muslim Brotherhood: Crucifixion or Just Plain Fiction?

Lurid tales of the Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood allegedly “crucifying” President Mohammed Morsi’s political opponents has gone viral all across the looniverse, but skepticism seems to have surfaced in an unlikely place.

The American Thinker is not generally friendly to Muslims, and articles from notorious loons like Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer routinely “grace” its pages, as evidenced by their respective archives here and here. Yet, despite the ridiculous assertion that rabid anti-Muslim bigot and serial fabricator Raymond Ibraham is “usually reliable,” the American Thinker indulged in a bit of fact checking and concluded the tale of crucifixion is, “at best, an exaggeration, and at worst, a hoax.

At the time of this writing, Google searching the phrase, “Muslim Brotherhood crucifixion” in quotes yields 341,000 results. Despite this bout of  ”lone wolf” fact checking by the American Thinker, this fabricated tale will no doubt be recycled endlessly, masquerading as “proof” of alleged Muslim depravity for months, or even years, to come.

Is the Muslim Brotherhood crucifying opponents of Morsi?

by Rick Moran, American Thinker

This story is hard to believe but comes to us from multiple sources, including the usually reliable Ray Ibrahim. The problem is that the original report is from the Arab media. And while Ray, no doubt, faithfully translated the stories, there is no reliable source that could confirm the substance of the report.

However, it certainly is not beyond imagining that Salafists allied with the Muslim Brotherhood could have carried out such a barbaric act.

Ibrahim reports:

Last week in Egypt, when Muslim Brotherhood supporters terrorized the secular media, several Arabic websites-including Arab NewsAl Khabar NewsDostor Watany, and Egypt Now-reported that people were being “crucified.” The relevant excerpt follows in translation:

A Sky News Arabic correspondent in Cairo confirmed that protestors belonging to the Muslim Brotherhood crucified those opposing Egyptian President Muhammad Morsi naked on trees in front of the presidential palace while abusing others. Likewise, Muslim Brotherhood supporters locked the doors of the media production facilities of 6-October [a major media region in Cairo], where they proceeded to attack several popular journalists.

That there were attacks and violence-both in front of Egypt’s presidential palace and at major media facilities, is well-documented. An August 9 report by El Balad, a widely read Egyptian website, gives the details:

Last Wednesday, August 8, “thousands of the Muslim Brotherhood’s supporters” attacked 6-October’s media facilities, beat Khaled Salah-chief editor of the privately-owned and secular Youm 7 newspaper-prevented Yusif al-Hassani, an On TV broadcaster, from entering the building, and generally “terrorized the employees.”

El Balad adds that the supporters of Tawfik Okasha, another vocal critic of President Morsi-the one who widely disseminated the graphic video of a Muslim apostate being slaughtered to cries of “Allahu Akbar”-gathered around the presidential palace, only to be surrounded by Brotherhood supporters, who “attacked them with sticks, knives, and Molotov cocktails, crucifying some of them on trees, leading to the deaths of two and the wounding of dozens.”

“Crucified in front of the presidential palace?” One would imagine that something so barbaric done so openly would catch the attention of at least some western news outlets. Or even al-Jazeera, who would almost certainly report such an atrocity. They can’t all want to cover up for the Brotherhood. A story like this is just too juicy to pass up in the name of political correctness or ideology.

A check of the Sky News website shows no story about crucifixions.. In fact, there is no time or date of the crucifixions reported by Ray at all.

These are all red flags that makes me think that this widely disseminated story is, at best, an exaggeration, and at worst, a hoax…

Continue Reading…

Related Story: Raymond Ibrahim and the Islamophobic Cash Cow

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36 Comments »

  1. Arab media, not to be trusted

  2. well not the first time someone has mistakenly accused the eqyptians of crucifixions. here i switched to the koran with arabic, you know, so it will be holy?

    7:123

    قال فرعون آمنتم به قبل أن آذن لكم إن هذا لمكر مكرتموه في المدينة لتخرجوا منها أهلها فسوف تعلمون

    Said Pharaoh, “You believed in him before I gave you permission. Indeed, this is a conspiracy which you conspired in the city to expel therefrom its people. But you are going to know.

    7:124

    لأقطعن أيديكم وأرجلكم من خلاف ثم لأصلبنكم أجمعين

    I will surely cut off your hands and your feet on opposite sides; then I will surely crucify you all.”

    12:41

    يا صاحبي السجن أما أحدكما فيسقي ربه خمرا وأما الآخر فيصلب فتأكل الطير من رأسه قضي الأمر الذي فيه تستفتيان

    O two companions of prison, as for one of you, he will give drink to his master of wine; but as for the other, he will be crucified, and the birds will eat from his head. The matter has been decreed about which you both inquire.”

    there’s more. but already too much ink.

  3. Well the story may be not true but it will not be an exaggeration. You either crucify someone or you do not. There is not much in between. I hope the stories are not true. People just do not deserve to be treated that way.

  4. Neither the MEMRI link nor the excerpts from the Qu’ran do anything to demonstrate that anyone was crucified in Egypt last week at the hands of zealots.

  5. peyton,

    “the excerpts from the Qu’ran do anything to demonstrate that anyone was crucified in Egypt last week at the hands of zealots” no duh. weren’t meant too. did you not read my comment? note “mistakenly”. not only did the eqyptians not crucify anyone last week. they also didn’t crucify people in the time of the pharaohs. the perfect koran is historically inaccurate. the romans came up with crucifing people.

    but given some eqyptians zeal for “the truth” of the koran and the sunnah. it is not beyond the pale.

    5:33

    إنما جزاء الذين يحاربون الله ورسوله ويسعون في الأرض فسادا أن يقتلوا أو يصلبوا أو تقطع أيديهم وأرجلهم من خلاف أو ينفوا من الأرض ذلك لهم خزي في الدنيا ولهم في الآخرة عذاب عظيم

    Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,

    http://pewresearch.org/databank/dailynumber/?NumberID=1184

  6. Mike and Jane,

    The swinish Ray Ibrahim is a well-known Islamophobe. Like Jane said, I repeat her, “Arab media, not to be trusted”, also “baseborne like Raymond Ibrahim, must not be trusted at any cost”.

    Crucifixion is a non-Muslim method of punishment. If MB tried to kill someone, they would easily go for beheading, shooting or at best stabbing. Nothing of sort happened. So, this kind of third class hoax has to be wrapped around an asteroid (if possible, the one that killed the dinosaurs) entered into RI’s asshole and twisting with vicious force.

  7. dgo,

    so what do you think of muhammad’s mistake of claiming the pharaohs crucified people?

    “Crucifixion is a non-Muslim method of punishment” yet there is verse 5:33 in the koran. that’s confusing.

    but yeah the egytians aren’t going to crucify, stone, (definately a muslim punishment, right) cut off anyone’s head, (also) anytime soon. they are still waiting on a $4.8 billion loan from the imf.

    [20.71] (Firon) said: You believe in him before I give you leave; most surely he is the chief of you who taught you enchantment, therefore I will certainly cut off your hands and your feet on opposite sides, and I will certainly crucify you on the trunks of the palm trees, and certainly you will come to know which of us is the more severe and the more abiding in chastising.

    [26.49] Said he: You believe in him before I give you permission; most surely he is the chief of you who taught you the magic, so you shall know: certainly I will cut off your hands and your feet on opposite sides, and certainly I will crucify you all.

  8. dongo,

    no word on how muhammad messed up so? or do you think the pharoahs crucified people? also,you say it’s not a muslim punishment yet you ignore 5:33?????????????????

  9. Mike really is ignorant and uneducated, read to find out how little he knows.

    5:33 is proof that the Quran was given divine inspiration. How was a person living in the desert thousands of miles away suppose to know that the Egyptians cruicified ppl? Did the Jews or Christians tell him? Lol, ur own fault for not recognizing another sign from the Quran. You did not do research at all, becuz you don’t want to admit its miracles. U choose to close your eyes to the truth

    Steve Bates writes:

    “In other nations of the ancient world crucifixion was the main form of execution, and thousands of criminals were crucified. Criminals were crucified in Egypt, and Alexander the Great, after a seven month siege to conquer Tyre, ordered two thousand Tyrians to be crucified as punishment for their resistance.”

    Prebendary of Saint Paul’s and scholar at Saint John’s College, Cambridge, Thomas Hartwell Horne writes:

    “Crucifixion obtained among several ancient nations, the Egyptians, Persians, Greeks, and Carthaginians.”

    Noted Christian scholar and interpreter of the New Testament, William Barclay writes:

    “The custom of crucifixion was widespread. We find it in Egypt, Phoenicia, Carthage, Persia, Assyria, Scythia and even India;”

    Markus Adams writes:

    “Crucifixion was really nothing new. Some historians believe that it dates back to ancient Egypt and Assyria.”

    According to the above non-Muslim scholars crucifixion did exist as a form of penalty in the time of Egypt. So much for the usual faulty charge of anachronism levelled against Qur’an.

    U mad Mike? Have a sarcastic response? Didn’t think so, becuz u sir, lack understanding.

  10. Mike,
    Since you seem so keen on denying signs from God u won’t bother to read this, so for anyone who is interested in learning about truth read the link below.

    http://hudabaharoon-miracles.blogspot.com/2005/05/dead-body-of-ramses-ii.html

  11. I have read that crucifixion is very ancient and sometimes consisted of simply nailing a person to a tree trunk or some other object, not necessarily using a crossbeam. They would be left to die. Onlookers could torment them. Set their hair on fire maybe.

  12. Cool story about Rameses II, shame it isn’t true.

  13. m bennet,

    “Mike really is ignorant and uneducated,” true dat. i’m ignorant of much and i’ve been thrown out of several universities.

    “read to find out how little he knows.” that’s going to be a long read, but let’s see what you got?

    “5:33 is proof that the Quran was given divine inspiration. How was a person living in the desert thousands of miles away suppose to know that the Egyptians cruicified ppl?” ok, well first of all 5:33 is the one verse that isn’t claiming the egyptians crucified people. it is saying that it is a just punishment to crucify people. the point is not if the egyptians ever crucified people, of course they did. just not in the time of the pharoahs mentioned in the koran. the 12 surah is joseph, the son of jacob sold into slavery by his jealous brothers. at that time and the time of moses, referanced in (exodous) the story of the egyptian magicians throwing down their staffs and they become snakes. then moses…shit we all know the story.
    “Did the Jews or Christians tell him?” maybe so. and they got it wrong.
    “Lol, ur own fault for not recognizing another sign from the Quran.” lol is right.
    “You did not do research at all, becuz you don’t want to admit its miracles. U choose to close your eyes to the truth” no i didn’t research it at all. it is common knowledgle.

    “U mad Mike?” no i don’t think i’m mad. but then again most crazy people probably don’t know they are crazy. are you mad? you’re the one who believes in miracles? angels and jinn? talking trees?
    “Have a sarcastic response? Didn’t think so,” see above
    “becuz u sir, lack understanding.” maybe so. lmfao.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramesses_II

    i’ll take wiki over a miracle any day. looks like not only is his preservation not a miracle but they knocked his head off when mummifying him. and a fungus was getting ot him in the 70s. god must have dozzed off for a while. how’s that for sacrasm?

  14. as for your research:

    http://unveiling-christianity.org/2012/07/21/egyptians-crucifixion/#

    alexander the great? really? we are talking about a time that pre-dates him by a 1000 years. if the perians originated crucifixion, how was it in egypt in the time of joseph? maybe you should look to less bias sources?

    crucifixion was nothing new by the time of muhammad. no shit.

    always good to hear from you mr. bennet. you keep plugging away.

  15. yes anon, it is ancient and brutal. funny that the religion of peace would employ it. looks like constantine outlawed it. funny muhammad would resurrect it. sorry, that allah the most merciful, the most benefical would want to bring it back in his “last divine revelation”????

    but not ancient enough for the time of joseph, or even moses.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion

  16. mike,

    actually the body in the picture I sent u is not mummified. The body is preserved do to the high level of salt concentration in the water where he was drowned, care to remember where? All the cells in his body are dead but the organs are still intact. Of course it will look a little pruny. You also missed other interesting point. How often do you find the body of a dead 3000 year old Pharaoh in the Red Sea? Suddenly all those miracles of Moses don’t seem so unrealistic. But hey, atheists can believe the universe can explode from a large pr-existing hot mass for no reason, that nothing can spontaneously be created into something. I think a mad person is one who can hold two opposite views. Obviously God can’t exist becuz I can’t see him or how he works. Yeah, well I can’t see bacteria with my eyes alone so I guess bacteria don’t exist either.
    As for the website it was an example, there are better ones, but u don’t have the time or patience to read through. NO Really? Alexander lived thousands of years after Moses? Yeah, yeah we all know the story. Point is u were ranting about how crucifixion not existing during the time of the Pharoah, but if you look at the victims of crucifixion in Egypt its the exact same as mentioned in the Quran, there legs and feet were also cut off. you like wiki so much read some google
    http://books.google.com.my/books?id=5QQDUkk1_AwC&pg=PA55&lpg=PA55&dq=criminals+in+ancient+egypt+had+their+hands+and+feet+cut+off&source=bl&ots=G_Zh0khp4X&sig=9_wBTGUMZz4Dn5GMPlxtECXDP9o&hl=en#v=onepage&q=criminals%20in%20ancient%20egypt%20had%20their%20hands%20and%20feet%20cut%20off&f=false

    “the point is not if the egyptians ever crucified people, of course they did. just not in the time of the pharoahs mentioned in the koran.”

    Actually, yes they did. As u quoted from the Quran: “certainly I will cut off your hands and your feet on opposite sides, and certainly I will crucify you all.” Not exactly the same method used on Jesus, but hey, the Quran never said it was exactly like the one did on Jesus.

    P.s. Wikipedia used generalized information from Christian sources. Of course they will think crucifixion came from the Romans.

  17. mb,

    “actually the body in the picture I sent u is not mummified.” says who? your miracle blog?
    “The body is preserved do to the high level of salt concentration in the water where he was drowned, care to remember where?” yeah the red sea. so you think after the body was recovered, the pharoah wouldn’t have been mummified. or if like you claim the high salt concentration preserved it. then where is the miracle.
    “All the cells in his body are dead but the organs are still intact.” says who? mircle blog guy. please.
    “Of course it will look a little pruny. You also missed other interesting point. How often do you find the body of a dead 3000 year old Pharaoh in the Red Sea?” he wasn’t found in the red sea. he was found in a tomb. he has been wrapped several times and moved several times.

    “In 1974 Egyptologists visiting his tomb noticed that the mummy’s condition was rapidly deteriorating and flew it to Paris for examination.”

    “Suddenly all those miracles of Moses don’t seem so unrealistic”. no they seem quite unrealistic.
    “But hey, atheists can believe the universe can explode from a large pr-existing hot mass for no reason, that nothing can spontaneously be created into something.” no it’s not nothing it’s enegry. pure energy.
    “I think a mad person is one who can hold two opposite views.” ok, who’s that?
    “Obviously God can’t exist becuz I can’t see him or how he works. Yeah, well I can’t see bacteria with my eyes alone so I guess bacteria don’t exist either.” lol. it’s not that i can’t see that i don’t believe in him. it’s that you and your fellow abrahamics keep putting out there a god who makes no sense. i can’t see magnetic fields either but i know they exist. i don’t know there isn’t a god, i just know your god makes no sense. and his “prophets” are crazy.
    “As for the website it was an example, there are better ones, but u don’t have the time or patience to read through. NO Really? Alexander lived thousands of years after Moses? Yeah, yeah we all know the story.” well one thousand. the point is why do your boys on unveiling christianity bring up alexander when we are tlaking about the time of moses.
    “Point is u were ranting about how crucifixion not existing during the time of the Pharoah, but if you look at the victims of crucifixion in Egypt its the exact same as mentioned in the Quran, there legs and feet were also cut off.” you like wiki so much read some google” njo in the time of ramses the second, they infact didn’t crucify people.

    “the point is not if the egyptians ever crucified people, of course they did. just not in the time of the pharoahs mentioned in the koran.” no.

    “Actually, yes they did. As u quoted from the Quran: “certainly I will cut off your hands and your feet on opposite sides, and certainly I will crucify you all.” Not exactly the same method used on Jesus, but hey, the Quran never said it was exactly like the one did on Jesus.” because the koran says something doesn’t make it so. that’s the point. you seem to be missing the point totally. your quote is factually wrong.

    “P.s. Wikipedia used generalized information from Christian sources. Of course they will think crucifixion came from the Romans.” wiki uses all sorts of sources. but it is widely accepted that crucifixion started in the 6th century bc.

    but yeah, if you can believe that ramses II wasn’t mummified, then you can beleive anything.

    here’s a nonewiki site for ya.

    http://carlos.emory.edu/RAMESSES/3_physicalevidence.html

    “The nose of Ramesses II was even packed with seeds and a small animal bone during mummification to preserve its shape.”

  18. how about encyclopedia britannica

    http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/144583/crucifixion

    crucifixion, an important method of capital punishment, particularly among the Persians, Seleucids, Carthaginians, and Romans from about the 6th century bce to the 4th century ce. Constantine the Great, the first Christian emperor, abolished it in the Roman Empire in 337 ce out of veneration for Jesus Christ, the most famous victim of crucifixion.

  19. Mike,
    Of course u continue to vehemently deny that crucifixion took place in ancient Egypt. There is NO factual information that proves the Romans were the first to invent crucifixion. Yet the details mentioning the cutting of hands and feet for crucifixion are facts from the methods used by the ancient Egyptians. I mentioned Alexander to disprove the Romans were the inventors of crucifixion, but alas, you missed to point entirely, as usual. You said my source was biased? I only quoted the famous non-Muslim scholars, including MARCUS ADAMS who talk about crucifixion in ancient Egypt. Another person u should look at is NICOLAS GRIMAL’S book, A History of Ancient Egypt also gives proof of crucifixion on ancient Egypt. Just proves u don’t read carefully.

    “it is widely accepted that crucifixion started in the 6th century bc.”
    What evidence do you base this on? NOTHING, because guess what? A 1/4 of the world is Christian, and that belief is still held by those who deny the historical evidence. Just look at their hiegroglyphics. That is also another proof of crucifixion in ancient Egypt.

    The word “crucified” which is the translation of the words anastaurôthenta and anestaurôse from the Greek anastauroô meaning “to impale”. The Smith’s Bible Dictionary also observes that the hangings reported in Genesis 40:19 refer to crucifixion.
    Summing it up: ANCIENT EGYPT DID HAVE CRUCIFIXION and denying it did shows u are deluded by RELIGIOUS beliefs which u claim to despise so much.

    I do not deny Ramses II was mummified. To better explain it, I meant his mummification did not follow the norm. His mummification was much different than his grandad, read more for details.

    Second, I did not deny that Ramses II was found in a tomb. I said the high level of salt concentration in his lungs indicated he was drowned but I guess u missed that little detail huh? His subjects most likely carried his body back. So the atheists argue that evidence was too vague, since salt could have been naturally used to preserve the body, does not mean he drowned. OK, then compare it to the salt concentration used on his grandad. 1) The salt conc. in the lungs is extremely different. 2) Ramses II had a large number of broken bones as compared to his grandad. 3) Ramses II also did not live as long as his grandad did. A premature death? An autopsy should give u cause of death but the only explanation is drowning. There are many more e.g. so do ur research if u dare. So in conclusion there a vast majority of differences between the bodies, which show the mummification of Ramses II went against the norm and should prove that he was drowned.

    rense.com gives some of the best refutations of the big bang theory. And its an atheist owned website so don’t go shouting biased.
    http://rense.com/general53/bbng.htm
    So I say a person is mad to suggest the Big bang is the answer, with all of the contradictions that pile up.

  20. Btw mike,

    It seems you don’t understand religion either. The Quran did not say God would preserve the body for eternity. It says God would preserve the body as a sign for mankind. After 3000 years we still managed to find it intact. But hey, if you can reject crucifixion being practiced in ancient Egypt I suppose you wouldn’t believe even if God raised the dead in front of you. The Jews had a similar problem and were punished in succeeding generations for continuous disobedience. One miracle does not prove the Quran is the word of God. The thousands of historical details without error do.

  21. “I do not deny Ramses II was mummified” well if you scroll up. you clearly stated: “actually the body in the picture I sent u is not mummified.”

    “It seems you don’t understand religion either.” that’s true.
    “The Quran did not say God would preserve the body for eternity. It says God would preserve the body as a sign for mankind. After 3000 years we still managed to find it intact.” we have found hundreds, maybe even thousands of mummies. that’s what mummificaton does, it preserves the bodies.
    “But hey, if you can reject crucifixion being practiced in ancient Egypt I suppose you wouldn’t believe even if God raised the dead in front of you.” oh no. if god raised the dead right in front of me i would believe.
    “The Jews had a similar problem and were punished in succeeding generations for continuous disobedience.” god damn jews. next you’re going to tell me about two races of giants god destroyed for not bowing down to him. for the ‘most merciful’ your god seems to kill alot of people. so he killed innocent male children because of the actions of ramses II?
    “One miracle does not prove the Quran is the word of God. The thousands of historical details without error do.” thousands? without error? can’t even get impale vs crucifixion right.

  22. so some scientist want funding to debunk the big bang theory. ok. it may certainly be a wrong theory. that’s why it is called a theory. not sure what that has to do with anything?

  23. Mike,

    “I do not deny Ramses II was mummified” well if you scroll up. you clearly stated: “actually the body in the picture I sent u is not mummified.”
    A typo. I’m sure u have made similar mistakes.

    “so he killed innocent male children because of the actions of ramses II”
    (this is one of the most common arguments given by atheists, it never gets old). More comments that prove u don’t read enough, why talk about religion if u don’t even know the basics?

    Although that story is mentioned in the Bible it is not mentioned in the Quran, so I can’t say for sure if that really happened. The Quran mentions several of the Pharaoh’s close subjects who believed in the God (not punished). The people of Noah disobeyed in succeeding generations. If God allowed further children to grow up to be disbelievers, more people in Hell (Muslims also don’t believe in original sin nor do we think children are punished for their mistakes). The destruction of so many of these nations is a warning to further nations to not disobey God. If those succeeding generations continued to deny God we would have a lot more people in Hell. The destruction of so many of these civilizations is becuz people keep repeating the mistakes their ancestors made and asking the same pointless questions. We believe in the wrath of God, but we believe his mercy outweighs his wrath. Obviously we will have standards. Or do you only dislike the punishment because you live a sinful life without restraint or repentance?

    Quran:
    Chapter 26:208-209
    Never did We destroy a population, but had its warners. By way of reminder; and We never are unjust.

    “thousands? without error?”
    Yes, of course if you are visiting those websites like 1000 contradictions in the Quran I’m sure you will have plenty to talk about. Some sound good when you hear the arguments at first,but all can be explained.

    Impaling is a type of crucifixion if you understand the origin of the word, u are just nit-picking.

  24. MB,

    a typo, ok. happens to the best of us.

    ““so he killed innocent male children because of the actions of ramses II”
    (this is one of the most common arguments given by atheists, it never gets old). More comments that prove u don’t read enough, why talk about religion if u don’t even know the basics?” i did go to 12 years of catholic school. i’ve read the bible and the koran. maybe it is a common arguement because it is so blatantly obvious. yeah why would it get old? but i should read more. but then again shouldn’t we all?

    “Although that story is mentioned in the Bible it is not mentioned in the Quran, so I can’t say for sure if that really happened.” so wait, muslims don’t believe in the passover? is moses not a prophet to ya’ll? so are you saying that moses imbelished the story of exodus? i keep hearing that all the old testement prophet are held in high esteem by the muslims. perhaps i continue to lack knowledge of the basics. please set me straight. http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/4116/
    “The Quran mentions several of the Pharaoh’s close subjects who believed in the God (not punished). The people of Noah disobeyed in succeeding generations. If God allowed further children to grow up to be disbelievers, more people in Hell” lol. so it is best to kill someone before they sin? ok now i see why muslim fathers kill their daughters if they become too westernized. dressing like sluts, they may soon become sluts. the ultimate love of a father. kill her. save her soul. you’re funny. so god doesn’t believe in free will?
    “(Muslims also don’t believe in original sin nor do we think children are punished for their mistakes).” yeah the original sin thing is always amusing. seems there are a whole bunch of pakistani who want to punish a child. what about moses’ traveling companion who kills a child for having a “corrupt heart”.
    “The destruction of so many of these nations is a warning to further nations to not disobey God. If those succeeding generations continued to deny God we would have a lot more people in Hell.” you sound like the westborough baptist church crew. you do know that the abrahamics are just now becoming a very slight majority. most of the world for most of this history have not worshiped your god.
    “The destruction of so many of these civilizations is becuz people keep repeating the mistakes their ancestors made and asking the same pointless questions.” oh shit not pointless questions. guess you never had those proffessors who on the first day of class “there is no such thing as a stupid question”. so god has no patients for questions? ieght.
    “We believe in the wrath of God, but we believe his mercy outweighs his wrath. Obviously we will have standards.” breakout the sharia.
    “Or do you only dislike the punishment because you live a sinful life without restraint or repentance?” not the only reason for my dislike, but certainly the biggest.

    “Quran:
    Chapter 26:208-209
    Never did We destroy a population, but had its warners. By way of reminder; and We never are unjust.” quoting from the koran as if it is some sort of proof is like using a word to define itself.

    ““thousands? without error?”
    Yes, of course if you are visiting those websites like 1000 contradictions in the Quran I’m sure you will have plenty to talk about. Some sound good when you hear the arguments at first,but all can be explained.” never seen it, but i’ll check it out.

    “Impaling is a type of crucifixion if you understand the origin of the word, u are just nit-picking.” i do nit-pick alot.

  25. Mike,
    I guess u think the passover is to celebrate the death of the firstborns of the Egyptians. No, we believe in the Passover in that we believe it was the day the Pharaoh promised to set the Jews free in exchange for ending the plagues on Egypt. Although the Quran does mention plagues, it does not mention the death of the first borns in Egypt.

    “lol. so it is best to kill someone before they sin? ok now i see why muslim fathers kill their daughters if they become too westernized. dressing like sluts, they may soon become sluts. the ultimate love of a father. kill her. save her soul. you’re funny. so god doesn’t believe in free will?”

    no dummy. Chapter 26:208-209
    Never did We destroy a population, but had its warners. By way of reminder; and We never are unjust.

    Just because God chooses to punishes people does not give Muslims the authority to punish others. The greatest sin in Islam is associating partners with God, but God does not give a worldly punishment for them, he decides their faith on the Day of Judgement. So its does not make it ok to kill your offspring. The story of Noah was a special case. Succeeding generations denied and mocked. They had their chance and were punished only for their crimes. As for whether children were killed or not I believe the verse above explains that God is always just. btw thanks I know im funny too. Here is another one, I think atheists only know how to mock, kinda like the people of Noah! Only looking for a reason to mock religion. lol.

    God does give man free will, but he also is all knowing and all seeing. He knows best what is in people’s heart. If he knows the decisions people will make, then he can judge accordingly.

    Now understand the difference. Just because God knows what a person will do does not mean a person does not have free will. If a Chemistry teacher predicts a student will fail his exam, it does not make it his fault the student failed. Its becuz he uses his reading from the student’s lazy behavior and poor coursework.
    Now if God is all knowing, all seeing, having no beginning or end of days, the Creator of the Universe, then yes, his decision is best, whether or not u understand. U can read the story of Moses and Khidr in the Quran. And don’t take it out of context. Just becuz God kills a young man (or child, exact age not known could have been 20 for all we know) for disobedience to his parents does not make it ok for humans such as ourselves to kill disobedient children. So I will repeat again, God is the best of judges. Does not make it ok to kill ur children.

    you do know that the abrahamics are just now becoming a very slight majority. most of the world for most of this history have not worshiped your god.
    So what?

    “you sound like the westborough baptist church crew.”
    Yeah I bet u asked them the same. Another of the stories in the Quran is when the people of Prophet Saleh questioned why they should believe in God. He warned them about the destruction of the Ad and the Thamud. They did not buy such fairy tale stories. Why should we give up our sins just becuz of some story? We want a miracle. So Saleh gave them a miracle. It was an enormous she-camel. Although the people were convinced in their hearts that God did indeed exist, they still would not listen becuz they enjoyed their sins and comfortable lifestyles, so they killed the camel and demanded the punishment from God if Saleh was indeed truthful.

    Yes, I use the Quran to explain my reasoning.

    not the only reason for my dislike, but certainly the biggest.

    1) Sharia only applies to Muslims (like charity, prayer, fasting not to be enforced on non Muslims).
    2) Sharia only punishes people for crimes done in pubic becuz it encourages others to do evil. Secular law will not punish u for incest done in your own home. But if u did that shi* in public u would most certainly be arrested. Or do u think incest is alright as long as both parties are over 18/21, give mutual consent, use condoms/sterilize, and adopt children.

    So in conclusion, u have nothing to fear unless u are 1) Muslim, and 2) Doing something illegal in public where 4 men can see. Like adultery.
    Now a person who sins and is not caught and punished in this world for their crimes will still be held accountable on the Day of Resurrection. That is where repentance comes in. One must first admit the mistake is wrong, stop the action, then ask for forgiveness. Whether u are sincere or not, God knows best.

    oh shit not pointless questions. guess you never had those proffessors who on the first day of class “there is no such thing as a stupid question”. so god has no patients for questions? ieght.

    No, questions are encouraged in Islam. Seeking knowledge for the sake of knowledge is an obligation. The point is how u ask questions and the intentions of your question. Most of your questions are not to learn, they are to mock and belittle, and when u do get a good answer, you mock it and ask another question with the same intention.

    The second chapter of the Quran, bakara, also explains unnecessary questioning. When God tells Moses to tell his people to sacrifice a heifer, they asked if he was joking. They went on and on to ask Moses about what type of heifer they should slaughter. What colour? How old? What exact type? All were useless questions and their intention was obvious. They did not receive punishment from God but they were humiliated by having to pay a high price to find such a heifer.

    “quoting from the koran as if it is some sort of proof is like using a word to define itself.”
    Definitions are important so we don’t become picky with unnecessary details such as crucifixion and impalement, or details of what kind of heifer we should slaughter.
    I quoted this to explain that God will only punish those who deserve it. And he knows best what they deserve.

  26. Whoops some mistakes.

    If a Chemistry teacher predicts a student will fail his exam, it does not make it his fault the student failed. Its becuz he uses his PERCEPTION.

    Notice anything weird let me know. Writing this much tends to have mistakes.

  27. well i think the celebration is the israelites being set free. shit i can’t remember all the plagues. locust, frogs, snakes, turned the rivers into blood, and of course the angel of death (or some other muslim incarnation, ya’ll angelic mythology confuses me) killing the first born male in egypt. of all the houses without, was it lambs blood on the doorway. thus the “passover”.

    “no dummy. Chapter 26:208-209
    Never did We destroy a population, but had its warners. By way of reminder; and We never are unjust.” lol. no dummy, that’s great. how about the mayans? you sure god didn’t destroy them? what ever happened to the mayans? jk.

    “Just because God chooses to punishes people does not give Muslims the authority to punish others.” FROM YOUR LIPS TO GOD’S EARS. OR RATHER TO MUSLIMS EARS. so why is it that so many muslims call for punishing people for blasphemy, apostate, not dressing properly. so muslims don’t have authority to punish? so what is sharia, the hudud?
    “The greatest sin in Islam is associating partners with God, but God does not give a worldly punishment for them, he decides their faith on the Day of Judgement.” but there are earthly punishment for other things.
    “So its does not make it ok to kill your offspring. The story of Noah was a special case.” lots of “special” cases in the good old days.
    “Succeeding generations denied and mocked.” well i deny and mock. if my grandkids deny and mock, god will kill them?
    “They had their chance and were punished only for their crimes.” crimes! mocking god. your boy can’t take some ribbing. god is pretty insecure. worship me, or i’ll kill you.
    “As for whether children were killed or not I believe the verse above explains that God is always just. btw thanks I know im funny too. Here is another one, I think atheists only know how to mock, kinda like the people of Noah! Only looking for a reason to mock religion. lol.” that is funny. don’t know about only, but it is our forte.

    ok free will and the “green one”. so god knows what is in your heart? so why not just kill all the corrupted hearts upon birth. plus who is corrupting these hearts. is it not god?

    “you do know that the abrahamics are just now becoming a very slight majority. most of the world for most of this history have not worshiped your god.
    So what?” just funny that god hasn’t wiped out all the religions who don’t worship him? surely they spread corruption?

    “Yeah I bet u asked them the same. Another of the stories in the Quran is when the people of Prophet Saleh questioned why they should believe in God. He warned them about the destruction of the Ad and the Thamud.” did you see 48 koreans died in a typhoon. a warning perhaps.
    “They did not buy such fairy tale stories. Why should we give up our sins just becuz of some story? We want a miracle. So Saleh gave them a miracle. It was an enormous she-camel.” fairy tales is right. a camel from the rocks. producing milk for a thousand men a day??????? seriously??????
    “Although the people were convinced in their hearts that God did indeed exist, they still would not listen becuz they enjoyed their sins and comfortable lifestyles, so they killed the camel and demanded the punishment from God if Saleh was indeed truthful.” earthquke. so earthquakes are punishments from god?

    “1) Sharia only applies to Muslims (like charity, prayer, fasting not to be enforced on non Muslims).” so why are non-muslims arrested in islamic nations for blasphemy and other “crimes”?
    “2) Sharia only punishes people for crimes done in pubic becuz it encourages others to do evil.” so if i’m having sex in public, as a non-muslims i should fear any hudud punishment. would i not still be “corrupting the land”?
    “Secular law will not punish u for incest done in your own home. But if u did that shi* in public u would most certainly be arrested.” yes we have laws against having sex in public and incest. all laws are for “the public good”. that’s what law is.
    “Or do u think incest is alright as long as both parties are over 18/21, give mutual consent, use condoms/sterilize, and adopt children.
    ” personally i have no problem with incest. as long as you don’t apply for public assistance because your kid is retarded.
    “So in conclusion, u have nothing to fear unless u are 1) Muslim, and 2) Doing something illegal in public where 4 men can see. Like adultery.”
    so a cop witnesses you having sex in public he won’t arrest you. because that is only one witness? is video evidence allowed?
    “Now a person who sins and is not caught and punished in this world for their crimes will still be held accountable on the Day of Resurrection.” yes that is why one would confess and ask to be stoned to death. lol.
    “That is where repentance comes in. One must first admit the mistake is wrong, stop the action, then ask for forgiveness. Whether u are sincere or not, God knows best.” well if you take the stoning that should be proof?

    “No, questions are encouraged in Islam. Seeking knowledge for the sake of knowledge is an obligation. The point is how u ask questions and the intentions of your question. Most of your questions are not to learn, they are to mock and belittle, and when u do get a good answer, you mock it and ask another question with the same intention.” ah, intent, my mocking tone. well what you and i consider a “good answer” is quite different.

    ““quoting from the koran as if it is some sort of proof is like using a word to define itself.”
    Definitions are important so we don’t become picky with unnecessary details such as crucifixion and impalement, or details of what kind of heifer we should slaughter.” 2:67-73. yellow with no markings, not young but not old, and not broken to the plow.
    “I quoted this to explain that God will only punish those who deserve it. And he knows best what they deserve.” sorry my comparison is obviously a poor one. you miss my point totally. to say you know something to be true because it is in the koran, is like a christian saying i know jesus is god because it is in the bible.

  28. so muslims don’t have authority to punish? so what is sharia, the hudud?
    I already answered that. And Sharia does not authorize punishment of children that is your delusion. Let me ask u a dumb question. Why do so many Americans support torture in Guantanamo if its against democracy. The answer is obvious.

    “They had their chance and were punished only for their crimes.” crimes! mocking god. your boy can’t take some ribbing. god is pretty insecure. worship me, or i’ll kill you.

    Let me put it this way. How would your parents feel if you denied they created you and disobeyed their every request. Who can be more unjust than those who deny their creator and are arrogant and disobedient? Its not just disbelieving God, people also do a lot of other crimes as well such as murder. Sorry if you don’t think serial killers should be murdered.

    ok free will and the “green one”. so god knows what is in your heart? so why not just kill all the corrupted hearts upon birth. plus who is corrupting these hearts. is it not god?

    Remember Satan? God does explain the relationship between man, God, and Satan in detail if you read the story. Man is given free choice. Satan gives man a choice and God gives man another choice. U follow the whispers of Satan u r punished if you obey God and his Messengers, work righteous deeds u r rewarded. Now I know u very well and u will like all atheists say that God created Satan then God is responsible for man’s sins. Again, u have not read the Quran so u lack understanding. Mocking the story of Saleh. Did God kill the Koreans for their sins? Again a stupid question only meant to express disdain. Natural disasters happen all the time doesn’t mean God did it. Are you going to ask if God is so powerful why does he allow theses disasters to happen? Well if we lived in a perfect world without any suffering that would be Paradise, and when people believe their lives are perfect they turn away from God. Death, natural or by disasters are a reminder to people that we will all die one day, it helps us reflect what we are doing with our lives. So if God exists why does he cause me to die? Why does he cause me pain when I fall off my bike? Useless questions.

    So what?” just funny that god hasn’t wiped out all People are given a choice. You choose to live sinfully u will be punished. U want to argue with God about why u don’t like being punished for sins he tells u to avoid? Go ahead, ask him stupid questions and see what happens.

    to say you know something to be true because it is in the koran, is like a christian saying i know jesus is god because it is in the bible.

    This is an ok question so I will focus on this. It is most certainly not the same. The Bible is filled with historical inaccuracies, but that does not mean it is 100% untrue. The Quran, as I mentioned before gives many scientific details that could not possibly have been known to man without the aid of a microscope. It also makes several predictions of what will happen in the future, and so far all have come true. So if someone predicts the future for you how many details will have to be right in order for you to believe? The Bible says the whole world was consumed by a flood whereas the Quran states that God only drowned the People of Noah. It does not recognize a world flood, something science has disproved. There are thousands of chances for the Quran to make the same mistakes as in the Bible but not one can be found. The thousands of historical details, scientific facts, and future predictions without mistake should be all the proof u need to see its from God. Now try finding 3 contradictions.

    Even if the answer I give u is right God does not guide the arrogant. If you read the questions Pharaoh asked Moses u might be surprised. His questions were very similar to your own. He did not believe until he saw the punishment. That’s how God works. No repentance can be accepted after seeing the punishment.

    Another example is your comment on incest. Many civilizations destroyed themselves because of their immorality. they thought their sins were not a big problem until it was too late.

    Allah wronged them not, but they did wronged themselves, So that the evils of what they did smote them, and that which they used to mock surrounded them.

    so a cop witnesses you having sex in public he won’t arrest you. because that is only one witness? is video evidence allowed?

    Video evidence should be used only sparingly becuz they can be misleading. What if a police officer tickets you for speeding? need four witnesses? U don’t always need 4 witnesses, during the Prophet’s time, a rapist was executed on the sole witness the of the victim. She accused him, he said it was mutual consent. He was executed based on circumstantial evidence. So I suppose videos can be used.

  29. Mike,
    To explain circumstantial evidence is important as well. Let me explain so u don’t continue to misunderstand the above mentioned for sex in public. 4 students go to this one college. They understand the rules that if you miss a test for a class you are allowed to re-take it if you have a valid excuse. So 4 students decided to skip class and come late. Their excuse was they had a tire blown. So the teacher allows them to retake the test. He puts them all in separate rooms. The first and only question on the paper is “Which tire was popped?” This is circumstantial evidence to prove someone guilty. Its been used in all sorts of cases. If a police officer caught you and your lover in public doing it, he can arrest u and you can go to jail. Increased penalty if you dare to lie. Lets say u do. An officer who does not know u personally or hold a grudge, is risking his job to arrest you for a crime simply becuz that’s the kinda cop he is. Well, two different police officers question you both in separate rooms. Say he caught you in the park with your shirts off and intercourse taking place. “What were you both doing in the bushes with your shirts off? False accusation he made us take off our shirts. Then all you have to do is ask them both questions like, “How did he coerce you into taking off your cloths?” “Did he hit you or make any kind of threats?” If their answers are different then they are found guilty.

    During the Prophet’s time a rapist was executed on the sole witness of the female victim. So of course atheists would not post it. All they post is that Islam protects rapists becuz the Quran states that the accuser must provide 4 witnesses. So a raped woman would have to provide 4 witnesses to prove she was raped? No. Circumstantial evidence can be used but things like pictures and movie cameras will not give u clear proof that intercourse took place. Questioning will.

    Your questions require long answers and are asked only becuz you don’t think there is an answer or don’t accept the answer. Like can I prove the Quran is the Word of God? yes I can, but that does not mean you will accept it. The Quran is recognized as the best Arabic poetic literacy. The Quran challenged the Arabs who accused the Prophet of forging the Quran to write a single chapter like the Quran and claim it is from God if they are truthful. The Prophet was an orphan, and illiterate. Surely if he or any other Arab wrote it then surely they could produce something similar? The shortest chapter is 3 short sentences. Not much of a challenge? Well no one has been able to even today. I can say roses are red, violets are blue but I wouldn’t be able to make it sound like something God wrote. This is yet another proof on the authenticity of the Quran.

  30. If u don’t want to read all these posts ask only a couple of questions. Too many useless questions only wastes your time and my time.

  31. Mike,
    to say you know something to be true because it is in the koran, is like a christian saying i know jesus is god because it is in the bible.

    Another reason this comment is wrong is because as a Muslim I don’t believe Jesus (PBUH) is God or that he claimed divinity. Why do I believe this? becuz the Quran said so? No, I did research. Some say the Prophet copied from the Bible. If so then why deny the most basic teaching in Christianity? Because the Quran points out that the Christians read their scriptures without understanding. Mostly becuz they don’t know how to read Greek or Hebrew. Other reasons are because they lie reading passages they say are part of the scripture but not really a part of the teachings of God.
    The Bible is huge. Millions believed Jesus claimed divinity for hundreds of years b4 Islam. If the Quran points out that Jesus did not really claim divinity when everyone believes he did, would this not prove that the Quran is a legitimate source of knowledge?

    Here is the big question. It is pretty much the only question I would want to answer. Where in the Bible does Jesus (PBUH) say worship me, I am equal to God, or me and God are one and the same person?

  32. so why are non-muslims arrested in islamic nations for blasphemy and other “crimes”?
    Lets answer that we another useless question. Why do we torture people in Guantanamo? Why did we give weapons to Saddam? Why did we give Iran weapons in the 80s after we declared them a terrorist country? These questions have an obvious answer if u did quick research. These Muslim majority countries have bad leaders, and they don’t practice the correct Sharia (told u that a lot too). I mentioned how the Quran does not give a punishment for associating partners with One God. There are no punishments in Islam for blasphemy. Why are so many people agitated by people who insult their religion in the Middle East? I already explained that. What about apostasy? Already explained that too.
    Here is a popular website that spews the same crap about how these Muslim countries are horrible becuz they practice Sharia:

    http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/002-rape_adultery.htm
    But at the bottom of the page look what it says-
    “Keep in mind that most Muslim countries do not operate under strict Islamic law, but rather under legal codes imported from the West. Therefore rape victims in these countries can and often do receive justice under more reasonable standards of proof.”

    So first they accuse Islam as being the source of violence but at the end of the article they take it back to avoid making it seem like they are prejudice.

    As for “corrupting the land” yes I don’t see anything wrong with punishing wrongdoers. I believe in the death penalty for rapists, plenty of others would agree. The punishment does not seem to fit the crime? Maybe to you, but God sees it differently. The lenient laws on rapists in the US are the reasons we have such high rape. Drug trafficking in Malaysia is punishable by death. Seemed harsh to me, but then I looked at Mexico and u can see the need for harsh punishment. Just becuz u don’t see the big picture does make these punishments wrong. Harsh punishments deter a person from committing these crimes. Same with the story of Moses and Khidr. Moses had knowledge of God, but he questioned Khidr on why God would tell him to do such things like breaking ships and killing young men. The reasoning made no sense until Khidr explained why God asked him to do such things. Just because u don’t see the way God works does not make him unjust.

    As for whether God will kill your children. Guess what? Interesting fact about life. We ALL will die one day. Just because your time comes sooner than later you will still be judged after you die for your actions on Earth. Will your children go to Hell when they die? I believe those who reject truth and live a life sinfully will be punished only for what they use to do. The most common argument that Prophets used was if I am a liar the sin is my own, but if I speak the truth then I can protect you from a terrible punishment. I do not ask for money or higher status, my reward is with God. I only ask that u enjoy what is good and forbid what is evil. Most people who use their common sense would no deny this logic.
    Under normal circumstances should anyone reject the above argument? Why not be safe than sorry? Because all disbelieving sinners want a miracle b4 they leave their life of sin. So will your children be punished? If they grow up, how they live their lives will determine that.
    Now why should God grant Paradise to those who reject their creator and disobey him at every turn?

  33. bennet,

    “And Sharia does not authorize punishment of children that is your delusion”. lol, my delusion. i’m not the one arresting a girl for blasphemy. so who is a child? does adulthood begin at puberty? you keep making statements that the actions of muslims throughout the world disprove. you did see the case of the 14 year-old girl lashed to death in bangladesh.

    “Why do so many Americans support torture in Guantanamo if its against democracy. The answer is obvious.” i don’t know what is obvious about that answer? what do you think? not sure how torture is against democracy? it is against the constitution. but i would answer, fear. they are told that if we don’t torture (waterboard) these guys there will be another 9/11. many people believe the ends justify the means. kind of like muslims have no problems with cutting off peoples hands if the end result is a lower crime rate. like muslims having no problem with killing blasphemers or apostates or adultrers for the sake of a stable community. not sure why you would ask about torture when your god is clearly in favor of torture?

    “Let me put it this way. How would your parents feel if you denied they created you and disobeyed their every request.” badly. but they wouldn’t kill me. lol.
    “Who can be more unjust than those who deny their creator and are arrogant and disobedient? Its not just disbelieving God, people also do a lot of other crimes as well such as murder. Sorry if you don’t think serial killers should be murdered.” i have no problem with executing proven murderers. but to execute people for not believing in god is quite different. you make quite the jump. who can be more unjust then atheist. those who mean to impose their religious laws on the rest of us. lmfao.

    “The Quran, as I mentioned before gives many scientific details that could not possibly have been known to man without the aid of a microscope.” like what? please not the old, live begins with a commingling of fluids. name one?

    “Remember Satan?” dude really?

    you miss the point totally again. the question isn’t wether the bible is correct about jesus being god. or if the koran is correct. the point is that a person can’t point to either as proof just because they believe in it. i know you “believe” the koran to be true. but that is meaningless to those of us who don’t.

  34. Mike,
    Repeating the Bangladesh story is delusional because I already explained to you that it was not in accordance with the Sharia. The arguments u use are simply racist, becuz u insinuate that the punishment the girl received was in accordance with the Sharia when it clearly is not.

    “i would answer, fear. they are told that if we don’t torture (waterboard) these guys there will be another 9/11. many people believe the ends justify the means.” including you? wow,so if Muslims have strict laws to enforce a moral society that is bad, but if we torture people without evidence becuz we are scared the ends justify the means.
    Its ok for us but not them. Sounds a bit racist. Tell me. Should punishments be less, equal, or more than the crime committed?
    kind of like muslims have no problems with cutting off peoples hands if the end result is a lower crime rate. what about rape genius? should the punishment be less, equal, or greater? Obviously it should not be less. But how can u give a punishment equal to rape? U can’t. So the laws either have to be too lenient or too strict. The death penalty for rapists would be a solution to all those Western countries, given their high rape statistics. Some think the ends justify the means.

    like muslims having no problem with killing blasphemers or apostates or adultrers for the sake of a stable community.

    Racists operate on pinning the blame on a whole society by looking on the actions of a few. Especially when they babble the same nonsense many times. I already explained in details as to why there is no punishment for apostasy and blasphemers in the Sharia. Ur incessant nit picking suggests either racism or stupidity. Neither of which can be helped.

    Adultery would certainly have a more negative effect on society than drugs. Illegitimate children do not have rights to inheritance and often grow up without one or both of their birth parents. Our statistics show a direct correlation between crime rate, and those in poverty and broken homes. Remember about our discussion on drugs in Mexico? That is why so many countries either have or are considering harsh punishments for drug trafficking. Trafficking of illegal drugs in Malaysia is punishable by death. Harsh huh? Many would think the ends justify the means.

    not sure why you would ask about torture when your god is clearly in favor of torture?

    God support torture? Nope, all societies have punishments for crime. Again, some think the ends justify the means. Or perhaps u know better than God on how to judge criminals? Still waiting for your reply on punishments to be given to rapists. If u don’t have an answer to how we should punish them, then u don’t really have a reason to tell me death for adultery is wrong.

    “Let me put it this way. How would your parents feel if you denied they created you and disobeyed their every request.” badly. but they wouldn’t kill me. lol.
    I was using a metaphor. I did not say God would KILL you for being atheist. Punishment comes after death. As the Quran puts it, those who deny God in this life, God will deny them on the Day of Judgment. You are only being punished for what u use to do.

    i have no problem with executing proven murderers. but to execute people for not believing in god is quite different. you make quite the jump. who can be more unjust then atheist. those who mean to impose their religious laws on the rest of us. lmfao.

    Yes, lol. Continuing to believe Islam punishes people for apostasy or blasphemy or simple disbelief. that is defined as either a delusion or racism. It wasn’t a jump, it was an example of how ur questions are also rhetorical and useless. as for those who are more unjust then deny God, simple. People who fight us simply for our religion, like the people of Mecca did, driving the Muslims from their homes and killing them. Fighting back and killing them is called SELF DEFENSE. But hey why should I go into details when I’m dealing with a delusional racist who thinks ppl are trying to force him to believe.

    you miss the point totally again. the question isn’t wether the bible is correct about jesus being god. or if the koran is correct. the point is that a person can’t point to either as proof just because they believe in it. i know you “believe” the koran to be true. but that is meaningless to those of us who don’t.
    Correction. I didn’t ask to prove the Quran was right and Bible wrong. I pointed out HOW the Quran asks questions in order for you to use your intellect to find ur own answer. the Jews preached Jesus was a liar and committed blasphemy. The Christians said Jesus had a right to commit blasphemy because he IS GOD. Would it not be considered a miracle if Muhammad (PBUH) knew more about the Bible than the Jews or Christians even though their were no Arabic translations of the Bible and Muhammad was illiterate (can’t read or write)?
    Conclusion: The Quran does not ask you to accept its view on Jesus without question. The Quran is more like: “Really? Jesus claimed divinity? Where? Produce your PROOF if you are truthful. If the Christians and Jews cannot, would it not be a miracle if the Quran corrected a 600 year old mistake?

    like what? please not the old, live begins with a commingling of fluids. name one?

    I gave many. I can give more but its pointless if you don’t read urself. I also pointed out the Quran was the first to distinguish plants as being in pairs, although once thought to be only asexual, we can now distinguish between the anther and stigma. Another proof would be the Quran pointed out something the Christians overlooked in their scriptures for centuries. Like the fact that Jesus (PBUH) never once claimed divinity. The premature death of the Pharaoh (with multiple bone fractures) and his son. Many predictions on the future including details on the loss and victory of the Romans against the Persians.
    There are thousands more historical details as well, like the name of the Pharaoh’s architect Haman. Then there are signs in the creation, like man’s ability to feel an “out of body experience” when one sleeps, how its convenient that the plants provide food edible for man even though storing it as starch (better for storage but indigestible for man) would make more sense. It also explains how the rain is convenient for rising into the air, blowing across the world and giving life back to the dead earth. It also explains the convenience of day and night. How the sun provides energy and light, and the night a period for rest and relaxation, and the moon as a method for telling time. It distinguishes the sun as giving light and the moon receiving light (Once thought the moon gave its own light). There are also miracles of birth, and detailed stages in the womb which could not have possibly been known at the time. Are you skeptical? Of course, it is easier to believe u can live a life without restrictions and that u will not be held accountable for your deeds. The proof is there, whether or not u accept it is your problem.

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