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US synagogue welcomes Muslims seeking a place to pray

20 August 2012 General 59 Comments Email This Post Email This Post


Muslims around the world are gathering for Friday prayers, and in one neighbourhood in the US state of Virginia, the worshippers will enter a building that could hardly be further from a traditional mosque.

At a time when religious differences are sparking conflict in the Middle East and beyond – it is cooperation between two faiths which is allowing this unique programme flourish.

The BBC’s Katty Kay reports on how the Jewish community opened its doors because the area’s mosques could not accommodate all of the growing Muslim population.

Original post: US synagogue welcomes Muslims seeking a place to pray

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59 Comments »

  1. This was on LoonWatch, too. I liked it immensely. ^_^

  2. Kiddush Ha’Shem…this deed is a blessing.

  3. Very positive gesture , should be inspiring ..

  4. Beautiful.

  5. Muslims and Jews should be friends.

  6. Anything that encourages dialogue, interaction, and seeking our commonalities, not our differences, is definitely to be commended.

  7. And it’s a refreshing change from the “Muslims hate Jews and the Jews hate Muslims” stereotypes. Amazing how we can get along as individuals, even when the governmental types are bickering over politics.

  8. Sadly this won’t be on mainstream news. Cooperation is not nearly as interesting as explosions, even if this is better for everyone.

  9. Nothing new ! It’s a tradition here in Morocco. It’s not about offering a place rather Jews and Muslims can worship in the same place. When a Jew goes to a city where there is no synagogue, he can enter a mosque without asking permission and vice versa.

  10. At my little synagogue in Los Angeles, we read from the Koran to show out support for the Muslim community against radical Christians wanting to burn Korans.

  11. The problem between in the Holy Land is political, not religious !
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=BE&hl=fr&client=mv-google&v=k-2Z3ANDxqg

  12. Long live to these jews

  13. “Muslims and Jews should be friends”

    They can’t be, islam disallows it.

  14. In 20-30 years they’ll chop those Jews.

  15. Praise be to Allaah.

    Firstly:

    Allaah has forbidden the believers to take the kaafireen (disbelievers) as friends, and He has issued a stern warning against doing that.

    Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Awliyaa’ (friends, protectors, helpers), they are but Awliyaa’ of each other. And if any amongst you takes them (as Awliyaa’), then surely, he is one of them. Verily, Allaah guides not those people who are the Zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers and unjust)”

    [al-Maa’idah 5:51]

    Shaykh al-Shanqeeti (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

    In this verse Allaah tells us that whoever takes the Jews and Christians as friends is one of them because of his taking them as friends. Elsewhere Allaah states that taking them as friends incurs the wrath of Allaah and His eternal punishment, and that if the one who takes them as friends was a true believer he would not have taken them as friends. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “You see many of them taking the disbelievers as their Awliyaa’ (protectors and helpers). Evil indeed is that which their ownselves have sent forward before them; for that (reason) Allaah’s Wrath fell upon them, and in torment they will abide.

    81. And had they believed in Allaah, and in the Prophet (Muhammad) and in what has been revealed to him, never would they have taken them (the disbelievers) as Awliyaa’ (protectors and helpers); but many of them are the Faasiqoon (rebellious, disobedient to Allaah)”

    [al-Maa’idah 5:80-81]

    Elsewhere Allaah forbids taking them as friends and explains the reason for that, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “O you who believe! Take not as friends the people who incurred the Wrath of Allaah (i.e. the Jews). Surely, they have despaired of (receiving any good in) the Hereafter, just as the disbelievers have despaired of those (buried) in graves (that they will not be resurrected on the Day of Resurrection)”

    [al-Mumtahanah 60:13]

    In another verse Allaah explains that this is so long as they are not taken as friends because of fear or taqiyah (i.e., being friendly with them in order to avoid harm); if that is the case then the one who does that is excused. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “Let not the believers take the disbelievers as Awliyaa’ (supporters, helpers) instead of the believers, and whoever does that, will never be helped by Allaah in any way, except if you indeed fear a danger from them”

    [Aal ‘Imraan 3:28]

    This verse explains all the verses quoted above which forbid taking the kaafirs as friends in general terms. What that refers to is in cases where one has a choice, but in cases of fear and taqiyah it is permissible to make friends with them, as much as is essential to protect oneself against their evil. That is subject to the condition that one’s faith should not be affected by that friendship and the one who is behaves in that manner out of necessity is not one who behaves in that manner out of choice.

    It may be understood from the apparent meaning of these verses that the one who deliberately takes the kuffaar as friends by choice and because he likes them, is one of them. End quote.

    Adwa’ al-Bayaan, 2/98,99

    One of the forms of making friends with the kaafirs which is forbidden is taking them as friends and companions, mixing with them and eating and playing with them.

    In the answer to question no. 10342 we have quoted Shaykh Ibn Baaz as saying:

    Eating with a kaafir is not haraam if it is necessary to do so, or if that serves some shar’i interest. But they should not be taken as friends, so you should not eat with them for no shar’i reason or for no shar’i purpose. You should not sit and chat with them and laugh with them. But if there is a reason to do so, such as eating with a guest, or to invite them to Islam or to guide them to the truth, or for some other shar’i reason, then it is OK.

    The fact that the food of the People of the Book is halaal for us does not mean that we may take them as friends and companions. It does not mean that we may eat and drink with them for no reason and for no shar’i purpose.

    Shaykh Muhammad al-Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked about the ruling on mixing with the kuffaar and treating them kindly hoping that they will become Muslim. He replied:

    Undoubtedly the Muslim is obliged to hate the enemies of Allaah and to disavow them, because this is the way of the Messengers and their followers. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “Indeed there has been an excellent example for you in Ibraaheem (Abraham) and those with him, when they said to their people: ‘Verily, we are free from you and whatever you worship besides Allaah, we have rejected you, and there has started between us and you, hostility and hatred for ever until you believe in Allaah Alone’”

    [al-Mumtahanah 60:4]

    “You (O Muhammad) will not find any people who believe in Allaah and the Last Day, making friendship with those who oppose Allaah and His Messenger (Muhammad), even though they were their fathers or their sons or their brothers or their kindred (people). For such He has written Faith in their hearts, and strengthened them with Rooh (proofs, light and true guidance) from Himself”

    [al-Mujaadilah 58:22]

    Based on this, it is not permissible for a Muslim to feel any love in his heart towards the enemies of Allaah who are in fact his enemies too. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “O you who believe! Take not My enemies and your enemies (i.e. disbelievers and polytheists) as friends, showing affection towards them, while they have disbelieved in what has come to you of the truth”

    [al-Mumtahanah 60:1]

    But if a Muslim treats them with kindness and gentleness in the hope that they will become Muslim and will believe, there is nothing wrong with that, because it comes under the heading of opening their hearts to Islam. But if he despairs of them becoming Muslim, then he should treat them accordingly. This is something that is discussed in detail by the scholars, especially in the book Ahkaam Ahl al-Dhimmah by Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him).

    Majmoo’ Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen, 3, question no. 389.

    Secondly:

    With regard to what this person says about not mixing with sinful Muslims for fear that he may be tempted by their sins, but the kufr of the kuffaar does not tempt him, the answer to that is:

    As for not mixing with Muslims who commit sin, he is doing well thereby, if he is not able to advise them and forbid them to do evil, and he fears that he may fall into the same sins and think it is something good.

    With regard to mixing with the kuffaar, the reason why mixing with the kuffaar is not allowed is not only the fear that one may fall into kufr, rather the main reason for this ruling is their enmity towards Allaah and His Messenger and the believers. Allaah has indicated this reason in the verse where He says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “O you who believe! Take not My enemies and your enemies (i.e. disbelievers and polytheists) as friends, showing affection towards them, while they have disbelieved in what has come to you of the truth (i.e. Islamic Monotheism, this Qur’aan, and Muhammad), and have driven out the Messenger (Muhammad) and yourselves (from your homeland) because you believe in Allaah your Lord”

    [al-Mumtahanah 60:1]

    So how can it be appropriate for a Muslim to keep company with the enemy of Allaah and his enemy, and make friends with him?

    How can he be certain that he will not start to think of their ways as good? Many Muslims have fallen into kufr and heresy and have apostatized from Islam because of keeping company with the kuffaar and living in their countries. Some of them have become Jews and some have become Christians, and some have embraced atheistic philosophies.

    We ask Allaah to make us steadfast in following His religion.

  16. That’s my kind of judaism.

  17. Am Jewish. Even though this story (should not be spectacular or unique), I guess in this day and time with all the “invisible dividing lines” that makes us friend or foe, it is.

    When we’re born and in the maternity room, we don’t know or care who is in the crib next to us, and more often than not, it is not someone of our own faith. We’re happy crying babies, and ok with that.

    If someone thought about that, no matter what kind of peer pressure we get (in all our major religions from a loud minority of extremists, that tell us “the other guys are bad”), our feelings should stay that way from crib to grave.

    We’re all G-d’s children (or Allah’s) in the case of the Islamic community, and that’s all that matters.

    Am glad good neighbors got together and did the right thing.

    Salaam,

    Rick

  18. sorry, forgot the link….http://islamqa.info/en/ref/59879

    lila,

    so what do you thing of this guys fiqh? what do you think of pakistan’s blasphemy laws? what school of islamic jurisprudance do you adhere to?

  19. Bukhari (52:177) – Allah’s Apostle said, “The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. “O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him.”

  20. amen, and trees will talk as well, that’s why they so busy rippping out the olive trees!

  21. To all the naysayers I say phooey on you. To all those who embrace peace, harmony and friendship, I say this is a wonderful sign that people of different backgrounds can be friends. I applaud everyone who tries to make peace and be friends. Love to you all. And for those who are stuck in the mud, I pity you.

  22. @ISlam is Terrorism: Brother the Aposle speech is right, I explained it on my blog in the following link, plz be so precise when u want to talk about religion, and plz dont just copy and paste, you have to be open minded and to have a little

  23. @ISlam is Terrorism: Brother the Aposle speech is right, I explained it on my blog in the following link, plz be so precise when u want to talk about religion, and plz dont just copy and paste, you have to be open minded and to have a little bit of knwledge about the comparative religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam), otherwise you will be lost in your reading.
    The prophet speech is about the last signs of the hereafter when Allah will send back Jesus Christ peace be upon him to the world, he will go to Jerusalem, the Prophet said there is a Jews who will try to kill and not obey Jesus Christ and only this group will be fighted by Jesus Christ and his followers (Muslims; Convertor Chritians and Jews who will submit to the sign of Jesus Christ)
    plz give yourself a second and read my blog:
    http://ammarquteineh.wordpress.com/2012/08/12/for-the-memory-of-the-history-the-palestinian-jews-before-1948/

  24. “the Prophet said there is a Jews who will try to kill and not obey Jesus Christ and only this group will be fighted by Jesus Christ and his followers”

    How sweet.

  25. Neat! Judaism and Islam have so many similarities so it’s truly a shame that there’s so much hatred between the two groups. Gestures like this are always welcomed.

  26. Devotee: Read the Quran.
    Critic: I’ve read the Quran
    Devotee: It’s not enough that you’re read the Quran. You must read the Hadiths too to understand Islam
    Critic: I’ve read the Hadiths
    Devotee: It is not enough that you’ve read the Quran and Hadiths. You must read them in Arabic to understand Islam
    Critic: I’ve read them in Arabic
    Devotee: It is not enough that you’ve read the Quran and the Hadiths in Arabic. You must have a spiritual teacher whose heart is filled with the spirit of Allah to understand Islam

    On goes the merry-go-round of Islamic logic because none of us are ever worthy enough to criticise Islam.

  27. Neat! Judaism and Islam have so many similarities so it’s truly a shame that there’s so much hatred between the two groups. Gestures like this are always welcomed.

    Islam is based on Judaism and Christianity so of course there will be some similarities.

  28. 90% of the conflicts around the world have Islamic aggressors. Wherever there is Islam there is war.

  29. and wherever there is Christianity, there is hate

  30. Thought I’d post just one vid, but then I thought fuck ‘em let them have a page full of truth
    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=child+taught+to+hate+jews&oq=child+taught+to+hate+jews&gs_l=youtube.3..33i21.5408.13465.0.14616.25.25.0.0.0.0.869.8494.2j3j9j3j3j3j2.25.0…0.0…1ac.8P888gk14Fg

  31. “and wherever there is Christianity, there is hate”

    Yep, muslims hating them:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/aug/19/pakistan-christian-tensions-quran-burning-allegations

    This is hardly advancing the debate is it?

  32. This accomodation has been going on for last several yrs. I guess the Islamophobia site posted it to drum up a backlash?

  33. hey, what if they were muslim guys. here’s a story for ya.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19326890

  34. Thank you my Jewish brothers and sisters!!!

  35. Here in Toronto…the Catholic scchools let muslims pray there on fridays…we roll out the carpet in the gymnasium….i use to love it…i could stare at the basketball rims and photos of Pope John Paul the Second all night!! I miss Pope John Paul…

  36. Another muslim calling for a crusade to kill all the jews

    http://www.memri.org/clip/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/3538.htm

  37. Aww this is awesome :D

  38. Seems I recall a past kinship,due to semitic roots,maybe it iss back?

  39. Straight outta da koran,
    With an AK-47 in my hand.

    [9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!
    [9.31] They have taken their doctors of law and their monks for lords besides Allah, and (also) the Messiah son of Marium and they were enjoined that they should serve one God only, there is no god but He; far from His glory be what they set up (with Him).
    [9.32] They desire to put out the light of Allah with their mouths, and Allah will not consent save to perfect His light, though the unbelievers are averse.
    [9.33] He it is Who sent His Apostle with guidance and the religion of truth, that He might cause it to prevail over all religions, though the polytheists may be averse.

  40. does anyone think these guys can read arabic?

    http://members.dodo.com.au/~wtt626/Saudiclericreveals.html

  41. Mike,

    I am right to call you a pseudo atheist and a pretender. You certainly are. You claim to be an atheist but the bulk of your rage is on Islam and Muslims and you find your sick pleasure in demonising them while remain totally uncritical of non-Muslim devilry.

    You are continuously mentioning verses from the Quran and Haadis to prove that Islam is violent and orders mindless execution of the so-called disbelievers. Even here, where Jews have granted Muslims with praying rights, you are keeping your bullshit up of demonising Muslims that they are hell bent on massacring non-Muslims, Jews and Christians in particular. And you start by picking selective verses from the Quran and Haadis. Well, did you ever condemn your fucking nation’s crimes against humanity? You said your mother consoled you when you told her about kidnapping Iranians and she said that US could not get to such low. How would she react had you told her about US and the UK staging the coup to depose Mossadeque’s democratic government and bringing in the Shah? What about US and the West happily selling nuclear installations to Iran? The Iran-Contra scandal? The Iranian civilian plane being destroyed by US frigate and the ship along with its members get bravery awards? Will you condemn them? No. Because, these are your acts of bravery (!?), honour and pride, at the cost of the helpless/weak to show the world “look, we are Americans, don’t mess with us anyway or you will be history.”

    Jews and Christians in prophet Muhammad’s days, would often embrace Islam in the morning and renounce it in the evening to show people that Islam was a false faith. Jews also broke treaties, cooperated/conspired with the Quraish and other invaders; you may be knowing that breaking treaties was a grave crime in those societies. One Jewish women is said to have poisoned our prophet. But Christians’ demonisation has been most virulent. In their blind rage, they even forgot that He died in 632 but they said that He died in 666 trying to prove Him the beast in Bible. They know it very well Muslims are strictly monotheists but Christians say that Muslims worship Muhammad. Certainly, paragon of knowledge (kick in the head).

    There are verses in the Quran that speak good of Jews and Christians. Do you mention them?

    And do not dispute with the followers of the Book except by what is best, except those of them who act unjustly, and say: We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you, and our God and your God is One, and to Him do we submit. [Quran 29:46]

    Not all of them are alike; a party of the people of the Scripture stand for the right, they recite the Verses of God during the hours of the night, prostrating themselves in prayer. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin Al-Ma’rûf and forbid Al-Munkar ; and they hasten in (all) good works; and they are among the righteous. And whatever good they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for God knows well those who are Al-Muttaqûn .(3:113-115)

    And there are, certainly, among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), those who believe in God and in that which has been revealed to you, and in that which has been revealed to them, humbling themselves before God. They do not sell the Verses of God for a little price, for them is a reward with their Lord. Surely, God is Swift in account. ‘(3:199)’

    Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve . [Quran 2:62]

    Say (O Muhammad ): “O people of the Scripture : Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but God, and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides God. [Quran 3:64]

    There is verse of neutrality/equality. This may justify my stance that Muslims can be Kaffirs too which simply means unbeliever. Now, unbeliever does not only mean that you will have to be a pure Muslim. When you break the trust of others and violate others’ rights, you are a Kaffir too even if you are a devout Muslim.

    “Those who follow the Jewish (scriptures) and the Sabians, Christians, Magians and Polytheists — God will judge them On the Day of Judgement:” (22:17).”

    Mike, I do have tungsten, chromium, titanium, boulder at my disposal. I believe you won’t make much progress with your AK-47 against me. Moreover, possessing AK-47 may be a crime but possessing the things I do, are not illicit.

  42. Jane,

    Roll your fucking source into your husbands (Dust) bin Latrine’s holes. He is waiting for you in MEMRI with all its pig members.

  43. dgo,

    “I am right to call you a pseudo atheist and a pretender. You certainly are.” ok. lol.
    “You claim to be an atheist but the bulk of your rage is on Islam and Muslims and you find your sick pleasure in demonising them while remain totally uncritical of non-Muslim devilry.” first i have no rage, i’m too old and dispassionate.

    “You are continuously mentioning verses from the Quran and Haadis to prove that Islam is violent and orders mindless execution of the so-called disbelievers.” that’s not my interpretation, it’s so muslims. i’mjustsaying that i think the book is poorly written and obviously not divine revelation.
    “Even here, where Jews have granted Muslims with praying rights, you are keeping your bullshit up of demonising Muslims that they are hell bent on massacring non-Muslims, Jews and Christians in particular.” i don’t contribute to the islam q and a site. it is a muslim shiekh.
    “And you start by picking selective verses from the Quran and Haadis.” yes, they are bad verses and hadiths. they should be ignored.
    “Well, did you ever condemn your fucking nation’s crimes against humanity?” sure.
    “You said your mother consoled you when you told her about kidnapping Iranians and she said that US could not get to such low.” no she didn’tconsole me, she correted me.
    “How would she react had you told her about US and the UK staging the coup to depose Mossadeque’s democratic government and bringing in the Shah?” well i wasn’t familiar with the shah at the time. mom propably was though. don’t know what she thought. propably thought it was thought it was good for america and oil prices. she voted for carter too. but if you google (islamophobia today Greek parliament approves Athens’ first mosque plan in decades) you will see muhammad bennet has brought up the shah before. but as said before comparing american foriegn policy to divine revelation is a non-sequitur.
    “What about US and the West happily selling nuclear installations to Iran?” don’t remember us selling them nuclear installations. the german sold them cetrifuges and the russian, not part of the west in most peoples minds, are building them a reactor, or where.
    “The Iran-Contra scandal?” bad idea by reagan.
    “The Iranian civilian plane being destroyed by US frigate and the ship along with its members get bravery awards? Will you condemn them? No.” yeah bad idea. the isralis shooting the uss liberty was a mistake too.
    “Because, these are your acts of bravery (!?), honour and pride, at the cost of the helpless/weak to show the world “look, we are Americans, don’t mess with us anyway or you will be history.”” you forgot to quote sherman, “the only good indian is a dead indian.” i’ve never denied american history. remember the maine. you’re funny. but yeah “don’t tread on me”

    “Jews and Christians in prophet Muhammad’s days, would often embrace Islam in the morning and renounce it in the evening to show people that Islam was a false faith.” so what? let them.
    “Jews also broke treaties, cooperated/conspired with the Quraish and other invaders; you may be knowing that breaking treaties was a grave crime in those societies.” you talking about the constitution of meddina?
    “One Jewish women is said to have poisoned our prophet. But Christians’ demonisation has been most virulent. In their blind rage, they even forgot that He died in 632 but they said that He died in 666 trying to prove Him the beast in Bible.” lol. the beast. the book of revelations is hilarious.
    “They know it very well Muslims are strictly monotheists but Christians say that Muslims worship Muhammad. Certainly, paragon of knowledge (kick in the head).” you can worship anything you want. buddha, stone idols, ali, i don’t care.

    “There are verses in the Quran that speak good of Jews and Christians. Do you mention them?” “people of the book” yeah i’m familiar.

    “And do not dispute with the followers of the Book except by what is best, except those of them who act unjustly, and say: We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you, and our God and your God is One, and to Him do we submit. [Quran 29:46]” buti’m not of “the book”

    “Not all of them are alike; a party of the people of the Scripture stand for the right, they recite the Verses of God during the hours of the night, prostrating themselves in prayer. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin Al-Ma’rûf and forbid Al-Munkar ; and they hasten in (all) good works; and they are among the righteous. And whatever good they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for God knows well those who are Al-Muttaqûn .(3:113-115)

    And there are, certainly, among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), those who believe in God and in that which has been revealed to you, and in that which has been revealed to them, humbling themselves before God. They do not sell the Verses of God for a little price, for them is a reward with their Lord. Surely, God is Swift in account. ‘(3:199)’

    Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve . [Quran 2:62]

    Say (O Muhammad ): “O people of the Scripture : Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but God, and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides God. [Quran 3:64]

    There is verse of neutrality/equality. This may justify my stance that Muslims can be Kaffirs too which simply means unbeliever. Now, unbeliever does not only mean that you will have to be a pure Muslim. When you break the trust of others and violate others’ rights, you are a Kaffir too even if you are a devout Muslim.

    “Those who follow the Jewish (scriptures) and the Sabians, Christians, Magians and Polytheists — God will judge them On the Day of Judgement:” (22:17).”

    Mike, I do have tungsten, chromium, titanium, boulder at my disposal. I believe you won’t make much progress with your AK-47 against me. Moreover, possessing AK-47 may be a crime but possessing the things I do, are not illicit.” ok. i don’t have an ak. i have an ar-15 though. you miss my point totally. sorry poetry is not my strong point.

    so anyways you think the embassy workers in 79 are responsible for the 53 coup? cut off their heads.

  44. “Jane,

    Roll your fucking source into your husbands (Dust) bin Latrine’s holes. He is waiting for you in MEMRI with all its pig members.”

    So much anger and hate. Have you been to the mosque?

  45. Jane,

    No darling. I don’t go to the mosque. But you definitely go to the MEMRI, and hatemongers like Laden, Piles, Stencher, EDL, Pam G, Ann Bitch Coulter, BDSM Brahminic Hindus and ilk.

    If my writings seem so much anger and hate to you, what message of love, forgiveness, nercy and compassion have you posted?

    Before blaming others, take a look at yourself. It is not hard at all.

  46. Yoi are a weird one

  47. dgo,

    sorry was my response to squidly? certainly you can answer my one simple question at the end?

    so anyways you think the embassy workers in 79 are responsible for the 53 coup?

    interesting quote: ““Not all of them are alike; a party of the people of the Scripture stand for the right, they recite the Verses of God during the hours of the night, prostrating themselves in prayer. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin Al-Ma’rûf and forbid Al-Munkar ; and they hasten in (all) good works; and they are among the righteous. And whatever good they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for God knows well those who are Al-Muttaqûn .(3:113-115)” i would wager that bin laden an al-zawahari (how ever u spell that) believe that “nothing will be rejected of them”? do they not recite the verses? prostrate themselves? do you not think, they think their actions to be pious?

  48. Mike,

    I ‘ve no idea if they were responsible or not. If you want, I may give my own opinion but remember, these are what I just think. I amy be wrong. Again, don’t take these as reflecting the views of my faith.

    Considering the overall situation of those days, the anti-West sentiment was very strong in Iran, especially the Shah’s too much romance with the West and Israel. You can see that the super conservative clergy of Iran were too much against Israel but more than that, they were three much hateful of Shah because of his lavish lifestyle. It did not begin in 1978 but since 1953. I personally have no grudge on Israel or Jews and I do support their right to exist. I also believe in the Holocaust because such a mass+systematic murder can’t be a myth whatsoever. Regarding the fact that the embassy officials were taken hostage, you can see that they were just taken hostage, not murdered. And I also fear that had they been taken by Sunnis, they would be, as Iranians are much more a cultured people than Arabs+Sunnis.

    Yes, I am aware that Dust bin Laden and Satan al Zawahiri read and use the verses from the Quran and Haadis and use them to their dusty, psychotic hearts’ content and twisted acts. But you can’t blame the texts for these motherfuckers’ brutality, just like you can’t blame the Torah for the acts of Israeli rulers. Now you may accuse me of hypocrisy or anti-Semitism. Then you must notice that they may be accused of the same crimes of Satan A Z and DBL. How? An operation was named as the “Wrath of God”. Some mortal humans commit an act and name it that. Why? Does that mean when Jews were suffering from others, those incidents were also the Wrath of God? Has any of Jesus’ disciples ever said that “name a place after myself”? They never did. They would never support such heinous acts. Yet, you can see numerous places named after Them. How has this been possible? Because their followers did these to justify their lust for supremacy at the cost of others while using the cloak of the faiths.

  49. Jane,

    May be/may not be. But you be sure of two things: I don’t hurt people unless I am hurt; and I always try to speak the truth.

  50. dongo,

    “you can see that they were just taken hostage” my bad, no big deal then. well, thank allah for small mercies, right.

    “But you can’t blame the texts for these motherfuckers’ brutality,” why not? if people can blame the writings of spencer and geller for the norwiegian terrorist, or the media for “white terrorist” just vandalism, usually, in america, why wouldn’t you look at the ultimate islamic texts as a factor in islamic terrorism?

  51. Mike,

    The religious texts do not say for mindless manslaughter unlike Spencer and Geller. If you hold the religious texts and put them and their followers on trial, you must do the same to Stencher and Geller. What happened after the Norway carnage? The first reaction was from people and media that Muslims did this. Stencher and Geller totally denied any connection and contribution. They were not blamed which should have been multiple poles apart had Muslims done this brutality? I also have an information for you: besides verses of violence, there are verses of tolerance and praising non-Muslims. Do Stencher and Geller have so? No.

    Did you ever hold Stencher and Geller responsible? No. Because, you have the eyes to find the faults with Islam and Muslims only.

  52. dongo,

    “The religious texts do not say for mindless manslaughter” maybe not mindless slaughter. but islam does call for brutal executions, by stoning and crucifixion. there are also several verses calling for war and slaughter.
    “unlike Spencer and Geller.” i don’t know what spencer and geller call for? i don’t read them.
    “If you hold the religious texts and put them and their followers on trial, you must do the same to Stencher and Geller.” so is not the opposite also true. if you put them on trial, which is what this website seemed to be doing, then should we not look at the koran objectively and try to figure out why muslims all over the world are prone to violence in the name of allah?
    “What happened after the Norway carnage? The first reaction was from people and media that Muslims did this.” so?
    “Stencher and Geller totally denied any connection and contribution.” so what was their connection and conrtibution? they have written books? provided inspiration? put thoughts in the guy’s head. again the koran is a book. the hadiths are a collection of books. do they not provide inspiration? have you never seen a suicide bombers video. the referances islam are constant.
    “They were not blamed which should have been multiple poles apart had Muslims done this brutality?” what are you talking about. there were multiple articles blaming them. and when muslims do things there are often media outlets stating that they have “hyjacked islam”, “don’t blame islam” etc. etc. shit after 9/11 pundits on cnn blamed the economic sitution. like islam american media isn’t a monolithic entity. i didn’t see it myself but i’ll give 100 to 1 odds that rachel maddow blame spencer and geller.
    “I also have an information for you: besides verses of violence, there are verses of tolerance and praising non-Muslims.” great. how about we do this. keep all those verses and throw the other nonsense out. and then you can call islam “the religion of peace”
    “Do Stencher and Geller have so? No.” i have no idea. well actually on this very site. there was an interview by alan combs with spencer. and at the end spencer said that islam had lead many muslims to live a moral live. something like that. i’ll see if i can find it.

    “Did you ever hold Stencher and Geller responsible? No.” well i don’t think they have done anything. what have they done?
    “Because, you have the eyes to find the faults with Islam and Muslims only.” well the problem is that muslims keep making this claim about islam being “the most peaceful religion on earth”, or was it in the world or on the planet. whatever that facebook moron said. i know you like shoving things up people’s asses, stop trying to blow smoke up them aswell. the old testement is utter non-sense too.

    the islamic world will never root out their extremist if ya’ll refuse to deal honestly with what motivates them.

  53. Mike,

    Are you deaf or blind? Haven’t I told you more than once that the verses are not wild cards for murdering people but are with contexts instead? The methods are not limited to Islam only.

    Yes, in the name of Allah. But Breivik mentioned in his testimony that he was inspired by Stencher and Geller. But as soon as this news came out, those two pigs distanced themselves. They were never charged of spreading hatred. The matters did not proceed further and they continue their stools.

    So, nothing and everything. It just shows the bloody bias of the media, the demonisation it can create and the divination it can ordain. And also your bias and hatred when you pretend to know nothing yet leave no stone unturned in that direction.

    Yes, I have seen. But, had the bombers been non-Muslim, would you condemn them? You never would. Because, you are always very much aware and prompt to condemn Muslims and Islam. When the RSS, BJP, VHP attack Muslims and other minorities, they shout “Har Har Mahadev”; the Om Shingrikiyo is a group using religious slogans and committing crimes. There are thousands of blogs, people and institutions in the west always explaining wars with Muslims in Biblical terms; they call Muslims as the disciples of the Antichrist. General Boykin’s “My God is stronger than his”. Bush’s crusade comment, Ashcroft’s comparison of Christianity and Islam, US army teaching anti-Islam courses? What are these, Mike? Did I make these?

    I ask you the same question: if you condemn the texts why don’t you do the same to swine and sow Stencher and Geller? The religious texts you allege to have violent verses, at least have the honesty of backgrounds. But Stencher and Geller were borne without the “H” of that thing. You ask me what they did; again Mike, you are making yourself a laughable fellow. Had they done nothing, they would not be cited by anyone to demonise Muslims and Islam. You know what Stencher did? On his bullshit blog, he allowed a comment which said: some Albanian asylum seeker Muslims were housed at a luxury hotel in Australia. At late night, they (male, female and children) came to the swimming pool, eased their bowels and urinated therein. You say, how can this be possible? First, luxury hotels are open 24/7. How can people especially when the asylum seekers included women, do renal acts in front of other people? And if they did, would not they be automatically disqualified to have asylum in Australia? My decision is that the pool was Stencher’s mouth.

    Yes, Maddow did. But the criticisms were and still are far more outweighed by Stencher and Geller’s vitriolic hatred of Muslims and Islam and the support they get. Their blogs and books are selling well and they have not been banned by anyone, blocking is far away. They are invited to speak in many places, their so-called expertise sought in making films and curricula for security officials to demonise Muslims and Islam.

    And your suggestion of abrogating verses. I don’t think you can do that thing with Quran unlike Bible. Because, there exist various versions of that Holy Book. In case of Quran, I think you can’t. Now you may allege that the Quran has also been changed. No, never. The copies that were destroyed were either fabrications or not Quran at all. For example, the seller of eggplants would say, “Allah’s Prophet has told us to produce eggplants because eggplants have remedies for all illnesses” just to raise his sales. Caliph Usman also compiled Quran for removing the troubles of pronunciation as Arabic has different pronunciations in different places.

    Yes, but I hold my ground. I can bet if Muslims had minisculest connections to this carnage, they would not only be condemned, their entire communities, the faith itself would have been blamed till today, like whenever there is a crime done by Muslims, that is kept alive by the media. Whenever there is something to deal with Muslims, the 9/11, WTC bombing of 1993, the Munich Olympic shootings, the Fort Hood shootings, the 7/7 and Madrid bombings are easy topics. Does anyone mention the Hebron Massacre? No. The Deir Yassin Massacre? No. The Saabra and Shatila carnage? No. Israeli PM Ariel Sharon was involved in this massacre. In Burma, Buddhist monks and commoners are murdering Muslims. Even the president himself has said that Buddhist monks are instigating anti-Muslim riots. Have you ever condemned them? No. Japanese fought the WW-2. They used Kamikaze “God Wind”? Are they called Shinto Terrorists? No. Buddhism is a religion of peace (!?*^%) according to westerners and many have embraced it. But the crimes done by Muslims are never forgotten.

    No, no, no, no. They have done nothing. They are angels with halo overhead, wings on their backs and harps in hands: they are just demonising an entire community and when condemned or questioned, claim that everything they do or say, come from the Muslims’ own texts, history and present actions. They say Islamisation and have a group “Stop the Islamisation of Nations” and another is that of America. I have nothing to tell about America (s) but what about Nations? Does that mean they will go for uproot Islam from KSA, Iran, Egypt or other Muslim countries? Do they have the guts to do so?

    Everyone has the right to claim their one to be the best. If Hindus, Christians, Buddhists can claim despite violence and corruption, why do you find it wrong with Muslims? Mike, don’t you come to suggest me why I want to insert things up people’s recta. I have no wish to insert those unnecessarily and will only use if need arises. BTW, there is an advantage: I’ll not be accused of using Shariah. I don’t try to blow anyone up. Just trying to smoke more cigars and cannabis. I don’t think Old Testament is nonsense. Had it been, Jews, who to my mind are the most meritorious on earth, would not have been following it.
    May be peaceful, may be not. I told you that it could be debated till the last judgement day.

    Stencher wrote a book, “Religion of Peace?: Why Christianity Is and Islam Isn’t, Regnery Publishing, 2007, ISBN 1-59698-515-1”. But you have a problem too. The US claims to prefer no religious discrimination. That is to say, it does not follow any specific religion and is not run by religious laws evident in the fact that it has no state religion. Well, so, some interesting things should be written into books and made people memorise: the atheist US and the godless USSR were responsible for the evils of the Cold War era. And the Atheist US has been responsible for all the lives lost since the founding of itself to present day. The atheist US has been responsible for invading and taking over another country under “God’s orders”. That the atheist US made a terminology “Axis of Evil” albeit there is no Devil if there is no God because both are from a religious description.

    As long as there is the West playing with Muslims (like the whores Saudis, Mubarak, Gulf nations, Taliban, Al-Qaida), you may never see any end of Muslim extremists.

  54. “Are you deaf or blind?” no why do you ask? all five of my senses are intact.
    “Haven’t I told you more than once that the verses are not wild cards for murdering people but are with contexts instead?” well, like i said before, somebody’s not getting the memo. so all the terrorist attacks you mention, where they not wild cards? it is either that or they are right in line with doctrine.
    “The methods are not limited to Islam only.” what methods? playing wild cards? of course islam isn’t the only religion to inspire terrorist attacks. just seems the most.

    “Yes, in the name of Allah. But Breivik mentioned in his testimony that he was inspired by Stencher and Geller.” ok. so you want them arrested and their writings banned. mcveigh admitted being inspired by the turner diaries. the anarchist cookbook is still in circulation.
    “But as soon as this news came out, those two pigs distanced themselves.” wuold you have been happy if they said, yeah kill people, that’s exactly what we want.
    “They were never charged of spreading hatred. The matters did not proceed further and they continue their stools.” charged with what? are you deaf and blind. lol. haven’t i posted both the skokie and westbourogh baptist church supreme court rulings for you. you still don’t understand freedom of speech in america. you are allowed to hate people in america, you can even say you hate them.

    “So, nothing and everything.” you referancing saladin’s line after the surrender of jerusalem, in the kingdom of heaven? orlando bloom asks him who as claim. “Non have claim, all have claim”???? lol.
    “It just shows the bloody bias of the media,” you are just now figuring out the media is bias?
    “the demonisation it can create and the divination it can ordain. And also your bias and hatred when you pretend to know nothing yet leave no stone unturned in that direction.” lol. bennet says i don’t turn over enough stones. lol. no need to overturn stones. the evidence is right there on the surface.

    “Yes, I have seen. But, had the bombers been non-Muslim, would you condemn them?” of cource.
    “You never would. Because, you are always very much aware and prompt to condemn Muslims and Islam.” again, it is easy. weekly report of muslim bombers. you did see two afghan suicide bombers kill 13 the other day.
    “When the RSS, BJP, VHP attack Muslims and other minorities, they shout “Har Har Mahadev”;” dude, i have no idea what those initials stand for.
    “the Om Shingrikiyo is a group using religious slogans and committing crimes.” the sarin subway guys?
    “There are thousands of blogs, people and institutions in the west always explaining wars with Muslims in Biblical terms; they call Muslims as the disciples of the Antichrist. General Boykin’s “My God is stronger than his”. Bush’s crusade comment, Ashcroft’s comparison of Christianity and Islam, US army teaching anti-Islam courses? What are these, Mike? Did I make these?” exactly, that is what religion will do for ya. my god is stronger than yours. we need a crusade, god comands it. a global tribalism.

    “I ask you the same question: if you condemn the texts why don’t you do the same to swine and sow Stencher and Geller?” i have no problem with you or anyone speaking out against what someone else says or writes. you can’t kill them because of blasphemy or any other crazy religious law. i have no proplem with you saying breivek was inspired by them. so what do you want done? so anyways, if writings can inspire actions, and are therefore partially responsible for said actions. then why would the koran and hadith not be partially responsible for islamic terrorism?
    “The religious texts you allege to have violent verses, at least have the honesty of backgrounds.” i don’t know what backround has to do with killing people for being atheist or for wanting to leave their religion?

    wow, back to assholes. you never fail to crack me up. but that is a big enough dose of dongo for now. thanks buddy.

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